Cue Holiday Season & Whitney Rose (Real Housewives of Salt Lake City)

0:00  
hello everybody. Welcome to the jann Arden podcast. I am jann Arden. Yes, I am. I'm here with Caitlin green, Sarah Burke, my faithful sidekicks who have changed the time of this particular recording more than once. So I'm very grateful for that. I've been traveling once again to see my beloved in the land of ice, the land of ice and fire, as they say. Girls, how are you? It's great to be here. I'm in my Toronto condo, so we're all in Toronto today, Eastern Time Zone. Yeah, this is so rare. It really is rare. And I'm going to be actually satelliteing Out of the condo for almost six weeks, six weeks off and on. So the next two weeks I am in here, I'm really hoping to drag you guys out for a lunch or a dinner while I'm here, because I want to do our Christmas party. I want to do the janne Arden pod Christmas party. So I thought we could stagger down to Lee's again, because I really loved it last time. Yeah and

1:01  
yeah, it's, it's, Oh, is that easy for you guys to get to? Because I know Toronto is a nightmare to move anywhere these days. Yeah, that's fine. No gifts. We're just going to be the gift of each other. Yes, the gift of time. Yeah, it's been, it's been a wild couple of weeks. As you guys know, I put up all my Christmas decorations. I'm able to say that now without feeling like I'm going to get massacred by people are like, You shouldn't be putting it up before you know Remembrance Day, which I agree with, by the way, but I also think that people, a lot of men and women and animals, fought for us and lost their lives so that we could put up our Christmas stuff whenever the fuck we wanted, because that's What freedom is all about. No, but I, but I'm just saying I've had people, you know, veterans, grandchildren, and saying, You know what, my grandfather died in in in England. And I think, you know, wait, people would be really put up a Christmas tree. No, no. Before November the 11th, you're not supposed to decorate at all. They say it's blasphemy. Oh, well, I disagree.

2:06  
Okay, well, you're kind of siding with me, but I get it, but it is I got everything up like Poppy is enjoying it right now with Angela, my dog sitter. Oh yeah, they I look in the cameras. Angela, I'm looking in the cameras. I have cameras all over my house, except the bathrooms and the bedrooms and all the Christmas lights are on, they are enjoying it. Oh, that's so sweet. You know, cameras in the house can also catch things going on that you otherwise wouldn't catch. I have, like, a little, I have a little story about that. You guys probably know I was doing a reno in the condo. I was going to redo, redo my floors. It's just going to be like a buff and refinish, because the I guess the refinish was like peeling. It was supposed to be oil, and it was not. I remember this. I remember you doing this. So I go away to the cottage for girls weekend, and I have the little pet camera still on, on purpose. And these, I see the four men come in, the guy who owned my condo before, who's a woodworker, set this all up because he knows the wood. And I figured out who he was and asked him his opinion. They were in here for five minutes, and then left

3:06  
and had taken a deposit of $1,500 from me. So I'm sitting there on Saturday morning, and I look on the pet camera to see how the first day of Renault went, and everything looks the exact same, and nothing's moved. And I'm like, What the hell is going on here? I just got the money back yesterday. It took me a two full weeks to track this guy down. He said that they thought they were going to ruin the floor, and they just didn't

3:30  
do it. So stupid, okay, but you did get the money back. I got the money back, but I had to bother this man every day for two weeks, and I was hiding my caller ID, like the whole thing. Oh my gosh, frustrating.

3:43  
No. I mean, many a nanny cam has caught many a horrific thing over the years. You know, cameras that are like in a teddy bears eyeball and, you know, disguised as a book or in a in a lamp, like the the spy cam is alive and well, I never, I live alone in my house. So the cameras serve no purpose except for insurance, because the insurance company said that I would get a discount on my home owner's insurance if I had cameras. So if someone were to break in, I'm going to have like, 15 angles of them. Here they are coming through the gate. Here they are coming through the door. Oh, here they are rummaging through, uh, you know, my nightstand. Oh, here they are. Whatever it's it's all it saves it for 30 days. I think, like all the footage gets saved for 30 days. I have used it once. You guys remember way back when there was a murder on my road? Oh, yes, yeah, yeah, I do.

4:41  
So I remember jann referenced, Oh, that's right, yes. Well, there was a young woman, very unfortunately, she was strangled. It turned out to be a family member

4:53  
that unalived, this poor, 26 year old girl whose dream was to work at Disneyland. So.

5:00  
Not exactly the thug life that she was living. Anyway,

5:05  
the police came buzzed my gate and said, we noticed you have a camera on your gate, which I do. I have a couple of cameras on my gate, and so it's the first time I felt very Agatha Christie, I had to have my tech guy come and give them a little memory stick of the activity. I think it was four hours before and after and the night before this, save this unfortunate incident, there was nothing on there, like there was one car that turned around that was lost. But I thought, boy, would that ever been cool? If I like, had this still photo of the perpetrator eyeing my camera as they drove around my cul de sac.

5:46  
They've come in really handy in terms of, like, crimes, for sure, there's that whole really popular documentary, I think that's on Netflix right now, called perfect neighbor, and it's about a woman, yeah, and it's about a woman who murdered her one of her neighbors, and she's serving jail time for it now, but the whole documentary is compiled with footage from body cameras from police officers and then security camera footage from around the neighborhood. Yes, it's fascinating stuff. I also am known to go down a rabbit hole of YouTube dash cam content, because the crazy things you see, let me tell you, driving in Russia does not look safe at all Toronto, trust

6:23  
me, Toronto has some entries on the dash cam YouTube channels that have, like, millions of views and some crazy stuff happens here. Yeah. But yeah, like you, I would be, I would want cameras. I actually, like, if we had a house, like, if we didn't live in a building, I would, for sure, have external cameras all over the house at all times. Update. You were looking what happened there? Oh, yeah, no, we did not that house, sadly, slipped away from between our fingers, and it haunts us now to this day, and we've seen a few more, but it's still, it's pretty quiet, like we're it's also the holiday season, so now we're kind of like spring market, yeah, so we'll see, we'll see what happens. But no, no house for us yet, we'll just be, you know what? Caitlin, it will happen in due time. I really do believe just that energy that you put out there, I think we do walk on our intentions to some point. I'm not trying to be really loosey goosier. I sleep under a pyramid and all that kind of stuff. I really do believe that positive thinking changes how people perceive you. Do too. So maybe it's not completely, you know, unicorns and elves and trolls and things like that, but it really is something to feel positive about yourself, like, honey. We'll get there. Yeah, you know, when you've got a great when you've got a great partner too, it makes all the difference in the world. Listen, I don't want to get too far without mentioning who our amazing guest is today, and many thanks to Caitlin, who has a great connection with hey you and the wonderful programming that they have.

7:48  
We I'm gonna you go ahead and just tell us a little bit about how you came across Whitney and why you like the Salt Lake City franchise, and what it was like to meet her in the world of reality TV. The Housewives are, you know, kind of like a founding father, so to speak, of reality

8:08  
television.

8:09  
So it sort of was like it. They started the whole thing in a way, and, and, hey you has all the housewives content. So I've poured through all every single housewives franchise. Salt Lake City is special. Salt Lake City is kind of the cultural touchstone for right now. The women of this cast have been on the cover of countless magazines. They've won awards like they're really, really high drama, crazy high drama. We're talking Homeland Security arrests, on camera, on Sprinter vans, and there is this really interesting other piece of the whole story, because it's Salt Lake City, which is Mormonism, and because it's so strange and I think, unfamiliar to many people who have never had any contact with the Mormon culture or religion, it just, I don't know, it's kind of this recipe for success. The women are really compelling, and Whitney Rose is one of the OG cast members. She's been on the show for all six seasons, and she was doing a round of press because they're in a really big, successful new season right now. And so hey, you had like, a press junket with her. And I was like, put our hand up to say, Yeah, I think she'd great, because I knew that, jann, you have a connection to Mormonism. So I thought, even though you're not an avid viewer of this, like me, even though you don't have my particular reality TV disorder, I thought you guys would have some great connection on that, and I feel like you did. She's also just a sweetheart, lovely person.

9:33  
Hey, listen, you and millions and millions of other people have the reality TV disorder, and I think it's, I think it's interesting viewing. And in a world where we are watching wars unfold in real time, I will put my hand in the air and say, give me reality TV anytime. She was lovely. So please stick around to listen to this entire podcast today. You're going to want to hear a just how genuine she is. What it's like raising children you.

10:00  
She did leave the church. I'm not I don't want to give too much away, but she's no longer an active member, and she went as far as to having her name struck from the, from the from the records. There's some kind of, like, big formal records that live in the hallways of heaven that you know she has struck in her name. It's like the show I just keep waiting for there to be like a dud episode, and it doesn't happen at the time of this recording, the new episode that came out this week was like the best ever. And I see so many people on Tiktok saying, if you're not already watching this show, I mean, what are you doing? So I do have to say that they have, they still have some new episodes for season six, and they come out every Tuesday at nine on Hey you. So, yeah, you are looking for something to distract yourself from the live streaming of wars. I really encourage you to go to Hey you, and just turn your brain off for a little while, because it is healing. Yeah, and let's throw this out here too. Caitlin, Captain Sandy, we want you. We I think you still follow me, Captain Sandy, and I follow you. Who's Captain Sandy for those of us who don't. Caitlin, okay, so Captain Sandy is currently the captain of a motor yacht on below deck Mediterranean. So she is a long standing figure on the below deck franchise, which we've also discussed before, and it's a highly successful outlet many, many different iterations, but she's sort of the queen of below deck right now. She's kind of like the lead, and she's great, and you guys follow each other, and I would love to speak with her. Yeah, me too. Listen, I want to know what's making you guys happy these days. I know what's making me happy. We'll get to it. And there's a few,

11:34  
well, there's lots of little things, but there's, there's something I'm going to say for Patreon too. So you got to stick around for Patreon, because I'm going to do a reveal that if you're watching the YouTube link, you're going link, you're going to be able to see what is kind of turning you on, making you feel hopeful. We're running into the holidays, and I think for me, it's always a special time of year for myriad reasons. Caitlin, good things. What's going on with you? I went to Collingwood this weekend. We're very nice. Yeah, we're Collingwood heads in this house. We love going to Collingwood and our very, very dear friend, one of my closest friends from high school, and Kyle's cousin who introduced us right. His name is Brock. Will calls him uncle Brock, and loves him so much. He has a place in Collingwood, so we get to go up there for free all the time. So we just abuse the hell out of this come winter. So we went up for the weekend, and instead of rushing back on Sunday, as we normally do, we all kind of collectively decided, let's leave Monday morning instead. And like, squeeze out an extra day. Like, why are we rushing back to meal prep, to love at work, to pre email? Like, why am I draining myself of one of two days that we all actually get to be together? And so having my group of friends all decide to do that up north for the weekend, we did a big Woods walk with will in his wagon. We would hide with him behind a bush, and then he would hop out on the trail and scare all the adults, like it was really, really nice, and a Gen Arden recording cancelation to boot, which worked out perfectly well. We were so, so funny that that ended up happening, because I was like, I have to be back in the city by our recording time. So we left, and we were on the road in time. And I was like, Yeah, but I digress. So it was still worth it, like I'm just so I think that's the thing, when you go away, if you have the benefit of, like, you're not paying to stay somewhere extra, you're at a friend's place, or you have a cottage or whatever, just leave Monday morning if you can, if you have remote work or Wednesday or Thursday or whenever. But just like, don't like, we all, I don't know, I just could feel my anxiety, my Sunday scaries, creeping up, and we all shut it down and said, No, like, Let's go have lunch together. Let's go to the park. So that was really, really nice. And I also interviewed one of my absolute favorite people, a man whose voice has been in my head for years, Matt Rogers. He is one of the CO hosts on the last culture Easters podcast with Bowen. Oh, okay, and yeah, there. You've talked about that podcast a lot. Yeah, jann, I played when we were in Calgary together. I played you and out there episode with Reese Witherspoon. Yes, it was fantastic. Yeah, they're so good. And they're like, they're the best of the best. Now, they just had Jennifer Lawrence on. I think their most recent guest was Sarah Paulson. Like, they have the biggest names now. And they started as absolutely nothing, just the two of them trying to make it an improv comedy back in March of 2016 like, this coming year will be 10 years of their show. And anyways, they're, they're just so much fun. And he is so fun, and he has a Christmas concert coming to Toronto. So I interviewed him for sharp magazine. And it was really, we just, we, we, like, ran over time. His publicist was like, I know you guys are having fun, but Matt has other interviews. We just, like, we just basically, like, talked on video for a half an hour. And I was like, should we hang out? Like, do we need to hang out when you come to Toronto? So that was a real treat. I love that. That's good actually, on the heels of that, because that podcast has come up in a big project I'm working on with an American colleague of mine who works in podcast research, which you know we love here at.

15:00  
Women in media network. So there's a research study for LGBTQ plus consumers. Like, what are their habits? What are their favorite apps? You know, what is the value of their audience? Because they are often overlooked. They often get sponsors at like, Pride Month, and that's it, right? Like, so trying to really look at how to connect the dots between like agencies, advertisers and brands and these creators who deserve much more, right? So yeah, I've partnered with it's called Coleman insights, the research firm, and my pal Jay. He has a trans son, he has got a gay mom, and has, like, been living in this world, and wants to do something, especially in America, it's much harder go right now, although we're seeing all sorts of that stuff here in Canada. So I'll put a link in the show notes if anyone wants to check it out, especially if you are an LGBTQ plus listener of podcasts. We're also going to want input in this research study from you, as well as creators like maybe you're also a podcaster,

16:03  
but, yeah, this is a project that we're going to try and present before pride next year in probably, like, late spring. It's really important. And on the heels of that, yeah, the Supreme Court in the United States just, you know, just overturned the request to have gay marriages annulled as if like taken away. Quest well,

16:26  
and you might remember way back when, and you might know the name Sarah, the woman who refused to marry people can refuse to give lice. Can you Dave? Everyone knows me on this podcast, I don't swear very often, this fucking ghoul. I hate this

16:41  
woman. I throw her in a volcano. Anyways. Continue. Dan, no, I, but you, you, you do you have like, a visceral response to what this horrid woman, who you know, looks like, she hasn't showered since you know, 1992 on her fourth marriage, talking to anyone else about the sanctity of marriage on her fourth marriage. Take us with your shit. This is the hypocrisy.

17:06  
Love it. Love it. I love the spiciness. So it was repealed. It was repealed and but I'll tell you what, I was nervous because, you know, I want to, you know, be able to be comfortable going to the United States and not, you know, especially if I was, you know, if I was married to my partner and, and, you know what? What happens when you go over the border and they're gonna fucking have ice? I don't know there was so many weird things and, but the tables are turning. So we would be remiss to not speak to some of the little Epstein Filey quote things that have been released. I want to let you guys speak to this, because the one quote I am going to kind of just pull out and and

17:47  
listen, I'm completely paraphrasing here.

17:51  
Epstein said that Trump was one of the worst people he'd ever met in his life, and that he didn't have a decent cell in his body. Yeah, go ahead, take it away. Girls. Do you want me to pull up some of the emails? Well, it would be great, because I know everyone's talking about it, but I want our listeners to kind of go, Yeah, this is a really shitty person who's talking about another shitty person. And if Jeffrey Epstein was talking to his colleagues, saying, listen, on the down low, this fucking guy is disgusting, and he's a pedophile and he is a felon. He's a rapist, he's a fucking liar, he's the worst businessman in the world, and he's running the free world. So something must be done. People are, anyway, really interesting. Sorry, go ahead. Caitlin, no, they just, like, they've really because there was, so initially, there was the release of the Virginia duffre book, and that everything that that had in it resulted in Randy Andy, Prince Andrew, being, you know, D Do you ousted? He's ousted, right? And so, as much as everyone was like, Oh, this is all just a big, huge, like, this is a fake scandal by the Democrats. I'm like, Oh, yeah. Do you think the King of England is disowning his brother because of a democratic scandal? Like, let's just say that where there's smoke, there's fire, and this has been a 10 alarm fire happening very publicly for years. And so these new emails, these 23,000 emails that have been released, are like, not helping anyone's case here that wants, apparently, just a tipping point as well, like there's so much more to come. So just to read a couple of the the key points, please do some of the emails say that Trump knew about the girls and referred to him as the dog that hasn't barked yet. Here's the quote. I want you to realize that the dog that hasn't barked is Trump. He wrote that to Maxwell. April 2011 the victim spent hours at my house with him, and he's never once been mentioned. And you can read all these emails like they're on the internet. Separate email with an author named Michael Wolfe in 2015

19:55  
Epstein and Wolf discussed whether they could craft an answer for Trump's upcoming CNN.

20:00  
Interview where they believed he would be asked about the relationship with Epstein. And the quote is, I think you should let him hang himself. If he says he hasn't been on the plane or to the house that gives you a valuable PR and political currency, you can hang him in a way that potentially generates a positive benefit for you, or if it really looks like he could win and you could save him generating a debt. Yeah, that's the part that always strikes me as interesting is that how you know beholden he is, and how beholden so many of these public figures are to other people and to other governments and to other nefarious individuals and organizations, because they've caught them doing something, and there's all so many conspiracies about, you know, who Jeffrey Epstein really was working for, and who he What kind of an agent he may or may not have been. So it's just really, yeah, it's not going away. And I think because, because Donald Trump has sued so many people for saying so little about him, like, like, in comparison to him being called a pedophile, quite roundly over and over again, as a result of his proximity to Jeffrey Epstein. He's never sued anyone for that. And I just think that that's interesting, because if I didn't do something that was the worst thing you could ever do on the face of this earth, I would be and people kept saying it about me, I would be getting litigious. And this is a litigious man, so someone who is used to just setting up what he needs, right? When someone's saying something bad. So why? Why wouldn't if this isn't true, why are you not going for everyone's neck on this? But I think it's because you don't want the discovery, like if you go, if you sue people, you have to go into discovery. And I don't think he wants that. Not to mention that the government shutdown ended, right as this was happening, and people are saying, this is Epstein coming back from the grave. So anyway, oh my goodness. Well, it seems to be decaying. It seems to be crumbling. There is a deconstruction here of the Republican Party being untouchable. Trump in particular, everything bounces off. He could shoot a person. He could shoot an unwed mother, pregnant on the street and somehow qualified as something he was doing good for the country and ridding people of a debt. But I'm just saying that that's an extreme example, but there's been so many extreme examples, like, how can you have, you know, dozens of felonies that you're convicted for and still be kind of standing and wielding this weird sense of power anyway. I'm very happy to see people having a change of heart, even staunch republicans who voted for him, they're just like their farms have been taken over. They haven't been prompt. They've I mean, the whole food programs that he shut down in the last couple of weeks. I don't know if he managed to do that completely, but you know, you can't take food out of millions and millions of children's mouths going to school. So the ending of the SNAP benefits happened to Yeah, same day as a massive, Great Gatsby themed party was being hosted at Mar a Lago. And so then that really did not land, obviously, very well. Well, it's Marie Antoinette, isn't it? Yes, it exactly is. And so I just think, you know, everyone, it is hard because, as as we've heard about this tactic before, they're calling it flood the zone, meaning do so many chaotic things and disrupt so many different things at once that no one can focus. I just, I appreciate when people can actually dig down and say, like, no, let's still, yes, it's a lot to parse through. It's a lot of news. It is really easy to be overwhelmed. But like, that's what is. It's incumbent upon his political opponents to still focus on these specific things and decide whether or not they have merit, and still release this information and keep going. But like, my god, they must be exhausted. Must be exhausted after cover up after cover oh my gosh, oh my gosh. There's so many great memes and so many great funny skits that are coming out of the White House press secretary. You know, so many skits on SNL that are just so absurd, because you just can't make this shit up

23:58  
along these lines, because we're all inundated with this stuff over and over and over again, and as much as I get sick of it, I still can't stop talking about it. So to our listeners, I know I vowed, like a year and a half ago to never bring up Trump, and we're not going to talk about him, but it's so ridiculous and so kind of fun that it makes me feel better because he's reality TV. Well, we feel helpless otherwise, right? We watch things unfold, and we're like, Jesus, what is this? You brought this to my attention, Caitlin, and it's, I love this, and it does kind of have an add on to this whole Trump thing, like, what, where is your favorite chill spot in your house? Like when you are inundated with new stuff, when you turn on the TV, or you ask Alexa what the news is, or you're, you're, it's just, it's all it's every day, all day, all fucking day. Would you guys have a place in your house? And I mean, your house, I don't want you to, like, talk about a vacation spot that you go and you just find solace. I don't care if it's staying in bed or.

25:00  
A kitchen chair. We got no, no, but there's

25:03  
gonna be some place. There is even in us, you know, many, many people are in small apartments. I was in tiny, little, bizarre places until I was 35 years old, like I, you know it? Well, yeah, you know, I was in a I remembered seeing like mice run along the floor the the sideboards in my house. And I kind of just was like, okay, that's happening right now. It was living under June. It was when I lived under June. Dyson, June's Nice. Yeah, they were June. I have a chair from my grandmother, my mom's mom, okay, or sorry, no, it's my dad's mom. My dad's mom, bubby. That will be Stevie loves sitting on it. That's like her throne. She loves putting her little I've seen her, yes, you have. And I like sitting there too. It's just like a, it feels like such a an old school like classic item to have in my home, which is also covered with, like, post, you know, like tour posters and stuff. So a little bit of classic. And I like, if I'm reading something or I'm listening to something, and I'm just trying to chill, even like listening to a record anywhere over there, near all my records, and I saw on the dog cam, one of those mofos sitting on that chair. And I was like, Get your ass off that chair.

26:18  
Did they sit down? I spot the one guy was sitting on the chair. Okay? It was like, You better not have farted on there anyway.

26:26  
Well, we don't want farts in Bubbies chair. No, no. We just, we just don't need that. Like, you where do you eat meals? Like, where do you sit? And take a Sarah Burke and Stevie meal? Like, will you guys sit at the table? He doesn't sit.

26:41  
I don't know why you don't let her. I have, like, a, it's like a kitchen bar, so I have two, like, high top chairs there. And it's funny because I had like, a laptop emergency a few weeks ago, and I was deciding if I was going to buy this, like, it's called a MAC studio, and it's like a tower versus a laptop that I could just hook into my screen, and I was like, I don't want to be

27:04  
always at this desk. Like, I have such a problem with that. I like being able to move around and, like, especially if I'm passively working on something. And like listening, I like editing while listening, where I maybe even look away from my screen until I hear something that needs a fix, because I'm trying to listen like a podcaster sometimes, right? So anyway, I like being able to move around, and I eat breakfast and my dinner there lunch, I'm usually roaming around. I feel and like kind of on, I don't know. I never really have three meals. They're usually two.

27:37  
Do you find comfort being in your home like it's yours. I love my and the dog is there. I love do you spend extra time in bed? Are you a person? Because I know I will. I will get up, get my tea, and I'll go back and sit in there, and I'll prop my pillows up behind me. And sometimes I just find it comforting. It feels very kind of. It makes me think of my mom and I, it's cozy, and I don't know there's just something about being there. And sometimes it'll be like, 915 and I'm like, I'm in bed,

28:12  
and I'll I do start feeling a bit guilty, but I try and rid myself of thinking that way. I'm like, if I want to sit here till 10 o'clock, I don't have to do anything right away, but I know it recharges me. I know that being in my bedroom and in bed in particular, and I know I just was in there for six or seven hours, but I'll just puff up pillows and and look at books. I've got so many great books that sometimes I'll just look through them and and pick a random page and read and try to decide what I'm going to read next our little bookworm. Yeah, I Well, I was just reading about, think of her. Name's Emily Watson. Was it the, the the Harry Potter actress, that lovely little young actress. She reads 100 books a year. Good for her. You know, that's, that's a lot, that's, that's a lot. Anyway, I was, you go ahead, Caitlin, that would be and we're coming back to book bag after both of you answered this question, yes. Okay, I like to bed rot as well. I love,

29:17  
I love a good bed rotting session. Yeah, it is. If I'm sick. I just crave my side of the bed. I have all my, hey you shows on my TV there, like I can just go there. I have my bedside. I have all the stuff I like. The lighting is how I want. Our bed is, like, super comfy. Do you have a king or a queen? We have a king, nice. Yeah. And then the

29:39  
but I do know that I have, like, an expiration date. I can't be in there for too long, I think, or I start to feel a bit like, look like, I think it can be, it's like, it's recharging. And then there is a threshold. I can't explain what exactly occurs, where it becomes depleting. And so my other spot that I love is, I just really love the corner of our sofa that I'm like, looking at that's directly to my right. And.

30:00  
And it's because our place is really bright. We have a lot of natural light and so, and it's, again, a very comfortable couch. Like my dad frequently opts to sleep on it. Like, if he is staying at our place to watch, will, he will, like, not go into our bed. He'll fall asleep on the chaise portion of the couch. Um, because he just, like, he's like, it's so comfortable, and it is and again, like, I can just be there. I can, like, watch my stories. I can eat in front of the TV a big bowl of, like, Asian noodles, and just sitting and watching my horrible reality addiction. That's very it's not, it's not horrible anything that brings you joy so much, and it does. There's something unappealing about liking what everybody else likes. Like, it's so great in life to find what do I like? You know, ask people what they like to do, and a lot of times there is a pause and they're like, I don't really know. Like, I don't really I don't know what my passions are. I hear that time and time again from like that, from from conversations I have with people, you know, they'll often say to me, Oh, my God, you seem so passionate about so many things. And I said I am, and I said, the list is ever growing. I am a passionate person. I like trying things that I'm not good at. I like,

31:15  
you know, pursuing things that I have no intentions of making into careers that I'm just going to do anyway.

31:24  
I just spoke. I had a 10 Minute Talk. It was supposed to be five at the Reykjavik Global Women's Forum, and I was very fortunate. Eliza Reed, our friend, our author, former first lady of Iceland, was good enough to throw my name into the bag

31:40  
to spend time with 400 very high powered women that gather in Reykjavik every year to talk about social change. And they have these panels that are really, really heavy duty. And they usually have, you know, four people in a moderator, and they talk about really hard things, things that are happening, whether it's Ghana, whether it's Scotland, whether it's somewhere in the Ukraine, there's women from all over the world. It's so inspiring. And in between these very heavy duty 45 or 50 minute panels that are done in the round. So it's set up in the middle of this beautiful convention center called Harpa.

32:16  
And anyway, they have something called the power of moments, and that's what I was basically hired to do. Everyone's there for free. Everyone flies themselves in for free. Everyone pays for their hotel rooms. This would be an impossibility to fund. So people that want to show up, they sign up, they pay their way. They go to this thing, and I had written something about creativity three or four weeks before, you know, to try and get the timing down. There is a point to the story and and

32:49  
last minute, I'm talking to Thornes in the car, because, of course, I have an opportunity to spend time with her. She was also involved in the in the forum, in another aspect, but in the car, I just said, Babe, I don't think I want to read this. I don't think it's right. I don't think it's right for the moment, and I knew that the producer of the show was probably going to freak out. So it was one of those, easier to beg for permission than beg for beg forgiveness, than ask for permission. So I got up there and I just wanted to tell a story, and I said as much. So I got it from my moment. I was quite nervous. You know, there's all these amazing women in suits and just looking ready to take on the patriarchy. That's what they look like.

33:31  
And I just said, Listen, I had something planned for you, and I'm not doing it. And there was kind of this, I I'm just going to tell you a story. And I talked about Alan Reed signing me because his fiance, his fiance or his girlfriend ended their relationship, and he had turned me down. And I talked about good things coming out of bad things, and I got such a nice note from the director of the of it, you know, the next day, just saying that was one of the best power of moments that we've ever had at this conference.

34:05  
And but it was talking about when you're in the middle of the shit and you think that all is lost, and they've told you, no, there's things at work that you have to lean into. There's things at work that are good, and you have to trust that in that moment, this wasn't the right thing for you, but, you know, bear steady on keep going forward, because sometimes no is exactly the answer you need to hear in order to make those changes. Anyways, it was an amazing opportunity for me, and it reminds me every day about creativity and about finding those passionate moments and the things you love. And if it's sitting in bed, you know that extra 90 minutes and looking at a son that you love more than life itself, or your dog, Stevie, or pondering your grandmother's chair, you know, these are the moments that we cannot overlook. You have to take the time to go. This is really special. This.

35:00  
Is really cool that I have this time, because there's women in this world that are fighting their way from underneath a pile of rubble.

35:08  
And so these small things become really, really significant in human life, hearing a favorite song, having a favorite drink at some random place with Alan Reed that's also leaning into the power of feminine and emotions, right? Which, if he hadn't done that, things would have looked very different. No, he leaned away from exactly what patriarchy had taught him his whole life of being 26 years old on the planet. First of all, he went to his parents house. When he broke his heart, he didn't join the the bros and go have a beer. He went home to his mother, and he was very, very heartbroken. Oh, and that is recognizing loss, not turning it into anger or resentment, and walking him and Jill schneller friends to this day. You know, it was Jill that broke us. Jill Schnell I had no idea that was Jill. Sorry. I know

36:02  
Jill from the music industry, too. No, no, and I thank her every time I see her at an event.

36:08  
Thank you for fucking Alan read over

36:12  
you really changed my life. So in the moments that you think are supposed to change your life, these big Hollywood moments, because we're so conditioned to believe in the voice and the 13 week cycle where you come from obscurity to be a star like it just is not the real out reality for most people.

36:32  
But it is those, those random things that that change you. But you're right. You're right, Sarah, that he just and then he came back and heard, I just don't love you anymore. And thought, I don't know if jann will sell records. He didn't lean, even lean into capitalism. Here's a guy that's signing his very first band, and he wanted it to be impactful. He wanted it to be the new nirvana. And he went against everything that his colleagues might have said to him, like, what the fuck Allen? Yeah, she's kind of this chubby girl from Alberta that fucking sings really depressing songs. I wasn't even, I wasn't the least bit chubby then. But you know what I mean, I was music industry chubby. Music industry's chubby. I was probably 130 pounds. 125 pounds. Oh, god, that's like 30 pounds less than me. Oh, Jesus, right. Don't even make me say the number. It doesn't even matter. But he, he should be really proud of himself, and he's still that man. He's still that man with his sons. He's still a man that has continues to change the the geography of music in this country. You know, he runs the Junos. So anyway, what a moment for him too, though, right? Because he could have just said, like, I'm gonna stomp this heartbreak down. I'm just gonna, like, disassociate, I'm gonna go listen to Jordan Peterson, or whatever somebody would do now, but like, instead, he just, sort of, like you said, went home to his parents, like, kind of allowed himself to feel and then was it turned on to you as an artist, which is mutually beneficial, because then he signs you, you go on to have this long and amazing career with Universal Music. Like, it's just, it's very fortuitous all of it. So, yeah, I like and it was the impact he wanted. He wanted to make an impact on his career. And whenever we get together, he said, jann, you changed my career. He says, I'm the guy that signed you so cool. Like, I'm the guy that went,

38:27  
I don't fucking know this girl's got Doc Martens on and her old dad's suit jacket. Like, what do I do with her? Which, mind you, are back. They're cool again. Every all of that is back. I was so cool. I was so cool, but I didn't think so at the time. I just was put together on a shoestring, and,

38:48  
you know, I didn't have makeup tutorials and I didn't have cool hair. I could always my mom would say, Well, you can start by brushing your hair. That might help. Anyway, that to say we are going to be talking with a woman now who's certainly not a victim, who is really shining a light. She's smart, she's intuitive, she knows how to play this game, and she brings some humanity to it. She's raising a family. She's got she's an entrepreneur. She's making the best of a situation that's been given to her. She's young. She's an expat, kind of from the Mormon church. Caitlin was really cool that you were able to secure her to Whitney rose for us. So we're going to listen to that conversation now. Any last little things that you want to say about Whitney before we go into this conversation? No, I just love her so much. And I think that if you look at this from someone who started on this show six seasons ago, and was a completely different person, and has been to, you know, to the point we were just talking about with all the cool girls, get fired. She talks very openly about failures in this season, and she and she does, like, let it all truly hang out. I think you'll I think there's a lot to take from it, even though she's like, Yeah, in the world of.

40:00  
On and frivolity of reality TV. I think there's some real depth there too. We will be right back with Whitney rose on the jann Arden podcast.

40:14  
This week on the jann Arden podcast, we are joined by a true icon from the Real Housewives of Salt Lake City, a show Caitlin swears. She swears it is high art, and I believe her. She's been trying to convert me into watching this for years, and I am now a fan. Her efforts may finally be working, because today we have the one, the only Whitney rose, an original cast member, proud, recovered Mormon. We will talk about that entrepreneur, mom, and as fans know, not terrible on a stripper pole. She actually had one in her basement, which frankly makes my elliptical look really friggin boring. Now, in its sixth season, the Real Housewives of Salt Lake City is one of the most popular and talked about shows in the entire housewives franchise, the cast just landed the cover of Us Weekly, and Whitney's been there from the start. She's funny, honest and genuinely vulnerable as she shares her journey of self healing and growth. We are so excited to have her here with us. Please welcome Whitney rose. Wow. What an introduction. Thank you so much. jann, well, listen, we're excited. Caitlin, take it away. You start us off, because we've got so much to talk about. We've probably got eight minutes left. I know exactly the intro was so iconic, but we had to really do it up right for you. Whitney, so this is, I mean, just to set the tone for anyone who, like one of our listeners, who's not a salt lake fan, they've heard me talk about my obsession with Salt Lake City for a long time. It's definitely my favorite of the housewives franchises. I'm not alone. This has become a fan favorite when you first started the show, all the way back in season one. Did you ever dream of a world where Salt Lake City, compared to Beverly Hills, compared to New York, all the other places in the US would be like the franchise that stole everyone's heart and became this big cultural moment,

42:04  
yeah, no. I mean yes and no. I mean, when we started, you know, we had no idea what we were doing. Season One was just like, you just show up. You have nothing. You have no idea what to expect. But Salt Lake City, in and of itself, is such a unique culture, and our cast is so dynamic that it doesn't shock me that we we got to where we are as fast as we did, because Salt Lake City, I think we surprise each other every season, like the changing dynamics of our friendships, just the things that we've caught on camera that other people haven't like, federal arrests, you know, things like that Bermuda. I mean, we just Salt Lake City just brings it, and it's just part of the dynamic culture here. Yeah, I think that the Sprinter van arrest, I haven't seen federal agents on another housewives series, and it's just, it's wild, the storylines I just, I feel like if you had a full team of Hollywood writers, you would not be able to come up with the content that you guys deliver whenever you're filming. It's It's unbelievable. And I do want to know, sort of like the show is built around conflict. Obviously, that's sort of the nature of the show. But you guys are all actually friends, and Heather's your cousin, you know? And so how does this work? Like you guys have this big blowout when the cameras are rolling, when you stop, when they stop rolling, how do you like flip and go back to just sort of like being friends and being related? Well, I love, I love that you said that, because I think that's actually the secret to why Salt Lake City works so well. Is because we have conflicts, but we also have resolution. We work through our fights and we move on to the next thing. But Heather and I, obviously, you know that saying Blood is thicker than water, so at the end of the day, Heather and I, because we love each other so deeply and know each other so well. When we do fight, it's intense because we love each other and it hurts that much more, but we always try to give each other the benefit of the doubt. And we Heather and I, we save everything for camera. Of course, off camera, we have our whole life and relationship, and we do a lot of things together, traveling and here in town. But on camera, we try to keep the audience as engaged in our relationship as we can. Because everyone loves a duo. You know, yeah,

44:22  
conflict and they love resolution. They like they like seeing people in real time and in real life, kind of going at each other, but there's always forgiveness at the end of it. I have to ask that transition from being Mormon. I was raised Mormon as well. I didn't know if you knew anything about us, but I left the church as a teenager, and my parents were like, listen, we resented having to go and you kids make up your own mind, so I was very fortunate in that way. But the transition and your upbringing to where you are now, how has that kind of affected how you make your way through the world? Oh, it's absolutely shaped every decision that I made.

45:00  
Take because unfortunately, when I decided to leave and remove I removed my name from the church. So I left, left. It affected my relationships with my family and friends. I had to start all over. So I had to find a new group of friends. I was estranged from my family for a bit of time. We're all my mom and my siblings. We are all back talking now. My mom was able to forgive me and get over it,

45:25  
but yeah, it really I've had to learn how to make decisions for me and not based on pleasing an entire community of people. Yeah, it is kind of a pleasing Yes. So the it helped me with my people pleasing. I'm still such a people pleaser, but I really had to say, You know what, what is, how is Whitney going to show up in the world? How am I going to shape the rest of my life? And that's why I went on my quote, unquote, healing journey to overcome a lot of that trauma that was uncovered when I left the church. So and I know Caitlin has questions about that, just that whole healing journey. Yeah, well, and I also wonder how being a parent plays into this, because, you know, I have, I have a three year old son, and I see you, and you're on the show. You're such a great mom. I mean, you're so close with your kids, you're so fabulous with them. That really comes across to viewers. I think, I think for all the women on the show, right? Just how much you guys love your children and and how valuable that is to you. So when you thought about leaving the church, like, what pieces of the church did you say? Ah, we're going to keep this. But I really want to take this away and not have this kind of feeling for my children in my household. Yeah, so let's start with what I want to take away is the guilt and shame. I don't want my kids to ever feel like they are not good enough, even when they, you know, don't follow the rules or make mistakes. I would don't ever want them to feel like they are not enough and they are not deserving of my unconditional love, because that is one thing about growing up in the Mormon culture, is it was shamed based and sin and joy based and fear based. So I removed that and but one thing I do love about the LDS community and culture is the family unit. So we still, every Sunday night, we make pasta as a family and have a dinner together. And in the Mormon culture, they call that family home evening. So I think just having the emphasis of family time. But what Justin and I make sure we do is that our kids during that family time, our kids have a voice at the table. They have a seat at the table. They have a say in what's working and what's not working in the family, just as well as Justin and I so I just don't want my kids to ever feel like there's anything they could do that I would never not love them or forget them. I think you've your your journey and your story lines on the show have been really good at, I think, like removing shame for people who are watching a lot of the stuff that you will talk about openly, I think helps remove, especially for female viewers, shame and something that has been a big storyline this season that I think is connected with so many people, is you discussing sort of what you're describing as, like the failure of your business. And so I want to know, has the response to that been overwhelmingly supportive? Because, I mean, you're just very few people are vulnerable on TV in this way they want to, you know, position themselves to be, I'm successful. My all my businesses are going great, but you were very open about like, yeah, this didn't play out the way I thought it would. Yeah, no, it was. It's scary sharing that, you know, that part of yourself, and honestly, I am so grateful to the fans and viewers for the pouring out of love and because I never know what someone's going to rip me apart for or drag me for or cheer me on for, and I honestly thought I was going to get, like, a little bit of criticism around it, so to receive love and support and connection from the viewers has really poured back into my heart and soul and has really given me like the energy and feelings like want to keep going. I just wanted to squeeze in one more question before we have to sadly let you go, Whitney, but obviously you're an original cast member and you've been with the franchise all this time. What are your sort of plans for the future? Can you see Whitney rose doing this for another 10 years and letting life unfold, and seeing your children grow up, and, you know, these relationships unfolding? What are your thoughts on that? Can you see a future with the franchise? I mean, absolutely, I I would love that's cool that, you know I'm gonna be here for a while. Hopefully you never know what life brings. But I it's so amazing. Just to put it into perspective, when I started the show, I was 33 Brooks was six, Bobby was nine. I am now almost 40. I'm 39 and Bobby's 15, and Brooks is 12, so in the next year, Bobbi is going to be getting her driver's license. I mean, much I know so like, I'm it's been crazy to raise kids on TV, and so at this point, I would hope that we get to stick around and at least see them through high school. But you never know. I mean, I love it. I think that our franchise is amazing. I love our.

50:00  
The Network. I love the fans, so hopefully I'm here for a while, so if they'll take here. Did you hear that? Did you hear that? Real Housewives, Salt Lake City, she is there to stay. Listen, what a pleasure has been. Thank you so much for taking time for little old us. We sure appreciate it. Caitlin is I've never seen her more excited about a guest, and we've been doing this for five years. Thank you so much. You should see my group chats like I have some real Hey, you addict group chats going. And I told them all that I was speaking to today, and everybody is freaking out. Watch the show, and we'll be right back after the short break. Thanks, Whitney. We are back. What a great conversation with Whitney rose. I you get exactly what we were talking about now and the Mormon church and how it just looms large over everything. Anyway, we want to save time today. We should talk about the book bag a little bit. Yeah, go ahead, Sarah, so I have some voice notes that we're going to play here to kick us off in this discussion. We got a lot of feedback from last week's episode. Okay, here we go, Hi lovelies. Good morning. It is Remembrance Day, and this is Karen from Halifax. I loved, loved the latest podcast with the cool girls get fired authors Laura and Christina been there hoping it could possibly make the book bag list, but going to read it regardless. On September 26 I retired from corporate life, I'm taking a page from Aaron Davis and calling it my rewiring, not retirement. Agree that for me, ageism creeped into my own thoughts just a little however, six weeks in, beginning to look at my creative side, finding my teenage binder filled with my own song lyrics and guitar chords I have not seen in decades, along with my poems, what a trip going back in time. Thanks again for this podcast and the community, and especially our only Jens and the book Bay. Steady on everyone. Take care. Bye, bye. Awesome. Karen. I love Karen. Halifax, thank you for I mean poems and song lyrics and chord like the chord progression charts that she made, Karen, next time we want you to sing 30 seconds of your song into Yeah, the next book gets a performance for you. Yeah, exactly. Okay, here's one more. Okay. Hi, ladies. This is Jennifer from just outside Cochrane, Alberta. This week's podcast really resonated with me, because I guess I'm a cool girl who got fired. I was working as a contractor for a company in the United States, and similar to, I believe it was Sarah's story, I was working along, and all of a sudden everything stopped working, I got locked out and went over to check my personal email to see if it was some sort of internet problem, and there was an email waiting for me saying that my services were no longer required. No notice, no reason. They didn't have to give me any of those because it was a contract position, but I think it would have been respectful. And then the part that hurt the most was when I reached out to some co workers, some of which I've worked with for almost 10 years, got very little response back, not even a you know, good luck with your future endeavors. Perhaps a fear, I'm not sure, but I never felt like I had closure.

53:22  
I was 57 years old, so feeling like, well, that's probably the end of my career as well, and feeling rather dejected. But fate intervened. A couple months later, I was offered a position at the Cochrane area Humane Society, and it is the most rewarding position of my career, I would have to say. So you just have to trust in the powers that be, and fate will intervene, and in the end, everything will be just as it's supposed to be. Have a great week. Toodles, thank you so much for saying that the Cochran humane I need to drop by there. I need to go in and maybe take a dog for a walk or something and and do something for you guys. But thank you for saying that. And yes, it's never over. It's never over till it's over and we just get more resilient. I apologize on behalf of the colleagues that you worked with for a decade that did not I don't think it comes from Alicia, a malicious place. It comes from. And the patriarchy creates this as well. And it's just like they don't want to appear empathic, empathetic. They want to distance themselves, to be tough, to not lean into an emotional response, which would have been like, I am, you are going to be so missed around here that is a residual patriarchy. And in order for the patriarchy to work, it needs women that support it. So I'm not going to get into.

55:00  
You know all of that, thortis would know this much better than me, but my God, I have learned from her so much about how things work, even how I have made my way through the world, and how I have inadvertently supported that kind of thinking. And to know you what I mean, Sarah, oh for sure, yeah, I didn't even realize, like, with our cool girls episode last week, when I was reflecting on some of the things I read in that book, I was like, I was kind of part of this at one point in thinking I needed to operate from that masculine energy to be successful. Yes, for sure, 100%

55:39  
and In what regard, if you don't mind me asking, I can't think of it's like, non specific, but it's kind of just Yes, having this attitude where I think back on like, thinking that in order to be successful, you had to be like a man, because that was very much like the version of success, actually, like, I don't know if you remember this, but when you First got let go you and I had a conversation on the phone where we were just talking about, like, how different the space I was in than you at that point. And you were like, to be honest, like, this is just like, leftover from the building that I have been in for 10 years. And, right, yeah, yeah, no, it's just very, like, it's very It's very weird, because you just have so much more perspective, like, as time goes on, and you kind of need to look back at different versions of yourself, and you can see how exhausting it was for you to, like, Chase ideas you had then of what success looked like, or how you would obtain it. And it's just, I'm like, Oh, I'm sure I'll look back on where I am now later and think like, oh, God, you should have just done this, this and this instead. Like, it's always hindsight. It's 2020, but I do think, you know, even just like growing up, I remember watching movies like James Bond, and I wanted to be James Bond, and in order to be like, in order to see yourself as like, successful, and it whatever you had, to think of yourself as a man, because that was the only thing you would see in pop culture. You like, otherwise, what was I going to do be like, a Bond girl that gets killed off in a bikini, like, so I was like, Okay, I have to, like, so it's just, it's that type of and I think, I hope part of it is, is changing, you know, but a lot of it stays the same. And you're right, jann, you do need, like, the patriarchy has to be upheld by both men and women. And I think we've all been there in problematic, or, you know, not problematic ways at different points in our life. Totally The one thing I didn't say, And thortis said, don't talk about that, because it's such a bigger conversation. I was going to say, in the music business, I'm often asked about how men have affected me and affected my trajectory and my success, and how I navigated through them. And I wanted to say to these women, these 400 women that I never really faced that with men,

57:49  
I faced it with women. Yes, I faced all my pushback from women who looked at me in that way where they start at your hairline and they move slowly over your neck and your breasts, your torso, your lens of patriarchy though it is. And she explained it to me. She said, You got to cut these women some slack. And she made me think of it in a much kinder light. They she said they are as much a victim to Yes, you know, they've fought so hard to get these jobs, they've got a male boss, and they can't be perceived as being favorable to you or somehow kind to you or supportive of you. You've got to take that exactly what you said, Sarah, that stance of I need to come at this from a male kind of perspective, masculine energy, the masculine energy. I didn't say it, and she was right to I left it on a high note, like I left it on we talked about that on my podcast. When you came on my podcast in jannuary 2022, I want to say it. That's what you talked about. And you said, I haven't, you know, I've been lucky, and I think now you understand, and you look at it, and in so many different ways, well, because I have someone who works in the field, who's brilliant, and I can't say enough good things, she is. She's so smart that way, and she's like, You need that is a whole 50 minute conversation. She goes, that is a decades of a conversation, yeah. So she said, Don't leave them with that, because those women were victims of that as well. Anyway. So on the heels of those voice notes. One other thing we got an Ask jann, and wanted to make sure I brought this up from Amanda, I recently lost my job. Very fitting with your latest episode and with the holidays coming up, I suggested to my close friends that we skip our annual Kris Kringle this year. Usually it's six people, since our finances are tight, we would still exchange gifts for our kids, eight in total, and spend time together. Nice dinner cottage weekend over the holidays. When I brought it up, one friend suggested we either lower the budget or let whoever wants to participate still do it. Now I feel awkward. Either I'm the only one not taking part, or I'll join in despite not really wanting to. I guess I expected a bit more understanding given my.

1:00:00  
Situation, and thought we could focus on time together rather than gifts. This year, would love to hear your thoughts. Thank you so much. I love your show. God, Jesus Christ, hard one. Listen. There's no shame in saying that is so great. I hope you guys have a great time. I literally can't afford to do that this year. You know, I love you guys and or there's another angle you can also take to this, and that is, go old school, make them some cookie dough, wrap it up in a really cool thing and freeze it and hand them this log of these are lemon cookies that you can literally thought cut up and eat. Whenever do something that comes from the heart, it shouldn't be about the money anyway. You already know that, and so don't, don't feel awkward, that guilt, awkwardness, that shame that we put up on ourselves. They're all so useless. And I'd like to think if you've known these friends for a long, long time, they will understand it. And sometimes those words that people say, it's not exactly what they mean. Like, we look into things too much, and we pick them apart too much. So, yeah, either get them inexpensive things or or make stuff. Make a fucking thing of nuts and bolts. I'm going to talk about my nuts and bolts in the next couple of weeks. She's going to be eating them for two months. Recipe, I make a VAT. I literally go get a turkey pan roaster, and I make so much nuts and bolts. I eat so many of them, and I put them in people ask me for them. That's what's gonna say. I actually would rather have someone make me cookie dough or nuts and bolts than be given another candle or whatever and like so. And it's not to say that I hate on candles. I love them, but I just mean to say that, you know, you can make something like you said that's personal and cost effective. Or, My gosh, say, if we want to do something and still give each other gifts, because it's part of the tradition whatever, make a rule that you're going to buy everything at Value Village. You know, go make a rule that everything has to be dollar store if you want. But what I really hear when she writes that in is that she's hurt, that she basically was forthcoming to say, I'm in a financially tough spot this year, and, like, I could use a break in this regard, because it's like, not in the budget. So I think to not have that sentiment reflected back from your close friends is undeniably hurtful. I'm certain they didn't mean it that way, and they probably don't know the depth of the emotional situation you're going through. And honestly, if people haven't themselves been let go, they don't really know what that feels like. So cut them some slack, and hopefully they just accept the idea of like, a cheaper, better gift exchange this year. I'd rather get cookies.

1:02:28  
Totally me too. Okay, extra. So now your extra can just be like, Okay, if you have an ask jann question, you can write us in book bag. You can throw to me for dates, and we're gonna go over to Patreon.

1:02:41  
So if you have an ask jann question, please don't hesitate. I mean anything. You know that I'm so very fashionable. If you need fashion tips,

1:02:52  
you know what kind of rubber boots are the best

1:02:55  
I can point you in the right direction. Yeah, a Canadian Tire. I can point you in the right direction.

1:03:01  
Listen, yeah. So yeah, ask away. And you know what? It can't. It doesn't have to just be me. If there's stuff that you want to ask, Sarah or Caitlin, we are all happy to chime in, yep, and yeah. And before we go any further, let's talk about the book bag. And let's, let's get this online, because we have a very bizarre book to talk about, Court of Thorns and Roses. I feel like I finally know the title. Now, you did. I am I have finished the book. I listen to them the last few chapters on the plane. Oh, my God,

1:03:33  
anything right now? But I Yeah, no, I'm not saying one more thing about it. What's happening? Okay? We have two lots to say in our book bag. Meeting. Yeah. Okay, so if you are part of the book, big tier, and you know, you have time to sign up for the book big tier before this happens next week, because the only jann, oh, my God, you have to. You have to. And the only jann's book big tier is where you get the Zoom link. We do this once a month, where we hop on Zoom and discuss the book. So Wednesday, the 19th at 11am Eastern Time, because Jen is hearing on terrible or Thursday the 20th half hour later, at 1130 Eastern Time, those are your two choices. She's on tour. She's busy. We're putting the vote up now. So if you haven't voted yet, we will be deciding the date by the end of the weekend. So watch your Patreon for an announcement on which of those two dates it's going to be it's gonna be good. You don't hear this talk about horny elves. You want to see it happen on Zoom. And even if you don't join us, if you're a member of the book bag, you get to watch it afterwards, because we upload the recording. So please, we need to see jann talk about horny elves and what we are also wait what we are going to also see coming up in Patreon, jann, I believe that you're going to do a little bit of a personal reveal for all of our get a reveal. I got a tattoo. Yep, say no more. Let's hit. Say no more anymore. If you want to see it, you got to, you got to come on down.

1:05:00  
You got to be Patreon. That's the best dance we've ever had. And we're also going to do a vote for our holiday choice, our last book of the year, which we'll give everyone to read over the holidays. Is that your choice? It's my choice, but I'm involving you two. We'll talk more about it in Patreon. Okay, that's it. Well, that's our show for today. Thanks for listening. Caitlin green, Sarah Burke and I am your hostess. With most is jann Arden. We are in our holiday run. We are running towards the holiday season, Kwanzaa,

1:05:29  
Hanukkah, Christmas, all of them, whatever you celebrate with your family, if you celebrate nothing, if you're an atheist, welcome, welcome. Welcome to our festive like our festive stuff. It's never, ever a bad time to talk about food and to talk about family traditions and to talk about smells that you like, and to talk about sitting in front of a fire and all of that kind of stuff. Thanks for listening as always, thanks for joining up to Patreon. What a great gift to give somebody a one year subscription to our Patreon. Five bucks a month. That's less than a box of matches, because I tried to buy a box of matches and they were like, $6.27

1:06:09  
tall ones are

1:06:10  
expensive. Yes, they are the tall ones at home. Sense, yes and home. Sense, we would love for you to be one of our people. So, you know, just putting that out there, okay, we'll see you next time. Come on over to Patreon. Let's talk about tattoos. I'm going to show you where my new one is. I'm jann Caitlin, Sarah. We'll see you next time on the jann Arden podcast. Totally. Do

1:06:34  
you.