Daylight Savings, Midlife Rest & Alcohol with Sleep Expert Alanna McGinn

Jann Arden  0:07  
Well, hello there. Welcome to the jannArden podcast. I am in Iceland. Got here this morning. Caitlin and Sarah are in Toronto, and I have to say, right out of the bag. Sarah and boyfriend, Dan, very handsome, picked me up in the biggest truck ever on Richmond street. You know when you open a door in a pickup truck and there's a step that comes down so that you can get into the truck? I got to ride shotgun. This truck is, like, so technically advanced.

Sarah Burke  0:38  
We didn't really, like have time to make, like, a full plan or anything. So we did, we did a quick pickup and drop off at the airport. Since I live near the airport and janngot to meet him, it's kind of like meeting the parents, right?

Caitlin Green  0:48  
Yeah, that's so cute.

Jann Arden  0:50  
It was really cute. And just the way that that, you know, Dan, you can just feel like this affection and lots of joy. And it's fun to be around that kind of energy. And of course, it reminds me very much of my own situation. And yeah, it was, it was very nice to be dropped off. And actually, the timing was perfect. I sat beside these two Italian women who have never been to Iceland before, and I was telling them where to go, and I said, my partner's in Iceland. And, oh, what do you do? And, you know, what does he do? And she, and they're and they're just like, ah, you know, oh, they kind of got all flustered when I said she they were like, Oh, wait, they were in like, their mid 70s. But I did correct them. I thought, you know, the old version of me that would have just sort of let it slide. And I thought, No, I'm gonna clean it

Caitlin Green  1:35  
up also too. Maybe they were like, you know, I've really been thinking of leaving Giorgio, and maybe I need to, like, consider more than just

Unknown Speaker  1:43  
stepping up.

Sarah Burke  1:44  
Giorgio, did you do Collingwood this weekend? Caitlin, what were you up to?

Caitlin Green  1:48  
Did not do Collingwood this weekend? Because Kyle did Collingwood towards the end of last week. So I was single parenting, so he went for men's ski day, which is like a lot of the like ski clubs. There were lots of cops. I heard, yes, there were, there was a lot of there was a lot of everything going on at this men's ski day. There was, like, they do, you know, there'll be, like, a company that has speed boats, so they'll have, like, inexplicably, a speed boat with, like, women in bikinis will be parked at the bottom of the hill. And he was like, sending me photos from this men's ski day. And I just was like, straight male culture is doomed if this is what you guys are doing at a men's ski day. So he went and did that. He came back home in a body bag on Saturday. So I got to have lots of solo time with Will, which was great. We did, like, Mommy baby pizza Movie Night. We got to sleep in the same bed together, like I was just like, Kyle, you don't need to come back. It's just me and will. Now, why

Jann Arden  2:37  
am I hearing a cat? Does someone have a cat in the background? It's sort of says cat Maori, and yeah, he's just, he's just talking, just talking, yeah, sweet.

Caitlin Green  2:48  
Like, who got a cat? It's not me. What else do we do? Though? We did something fun. Oh, we went to the a Geo. We went to the atoll yesterday. And they have, you know, the Yayoi Kusama, the like, really cool, like, the different rooms they had, like she used to do for her art installations, and so we did, I think there's kind of one that's semi permanent at the AGL, and it's filled with all these mirrors and mirrored balls. And you go in, and you have one minute when you go inside, and then they close the door, and when they close the door, the door disappears into, like this, the mirrored room that you're in. So I'll have to send you guys a photo. I have also have videos of will running around, going, where's the door? Where's the door? Like, how do we get out of here? That's cool. Yeah, the ATO is a really, really great spot, especially just because I always remember as a kid, some of the best days out with my parents were when I got to go to, like, a really new physical space, whether you, like, ought to go see a play or, like, do something new. So yeah, he was, he absolutely loved it.

Sarah Burke  3:46  
This is something you get to do if you have a Toronto Library card, right? Isn't that a free thing?

Caitlin Green  3:51  
I think so. I don't know that. It gives you access to all of the like, exhibits, but certainly, like the regular portions, I think you would there is something to there is, there's something there. We have an annual membership to the a geo because we

Jann Arden  4:04  
do try, for those who don't know what the a geo is, please. It is the Art Gallery of Ontario, okay? Because a lot of people who are not from Ontario have no idea what a geo

Caitlin Green  4:13  
is there. Like, what is talking about? Yeah. So the Art Gallery of Ontario, and it has that really amazing, like, that beautiful wooden room that feels like you're inside this big canoe. And they do like kids crafts, like March Break. If you have a kid and you you're in Toronto, March break coming up, yeah, if you're in Toronto, or you visit Toronto with your family during March Break, they have tons and tons of amazing things happening at the art gallery. So consider taking a look.

Jann Arden  4:36  
Speaking of art. Just want to jump in really quickly. So I was in Toronto for a weekend. I had a meeting at my publishers finding a new editor because my editor retired. Shout out to Ann Collins, who I've worked with for, you know, the last 15 years. Anyway, I hooked up with Tiffany Pratt. I spent like a morning with her and had a coffee. But I also got a chance to hang out with Cynthia Loy. Passed, and she picked me up at Tiffany's place, and she took me to her husband's father in law's sort of memoriam art showing. So her husband, Jason, his father, passed away a couple of months ago, and he was a prolific artist and a teacher at, you know, some big, you know, School of Art in Toronto. And forgive me for not knowing what it was, but they had this massive room. I don't know what it was called, but there was, you know, literally, you know, 125 of his pieces. You can go and see it. And Jason had also shot a little film of his dad, what an unbelievable talent and what a profound amount of art this man created in his lifetime. He came to Toronto as a young man in his very early 20s with 120 odd bucks in his pocket, and was so enamored with Toronto and just made a go of it. So I'm gonna get the information from Cynthia, because I'd really like to post it in the show notes. I don't know how long. Know how long it's going to be up, but yeah, hundreds of people showed up for his memorial and and he left a very beautiful legacy behind him. So Jason did an incredible job of this, and so did Cynthia. She wrote a lot of the blurbs and a lot of the stuff. So it's amazing how we deal with grief and how we memorialize the people that we've loved. But that was, you know, speaking of art, it was so cool to take a glimpse into a person's life.

Caitlin Green  6:29  
So he was primarily, like a painter. That's that was sort of his medium. He had

Jann Arden  6:33  
all, yeah, he did watercolors and acrylics, and he did massive panels that were like, you know, 10 feet by six feet. You know, you have to have giant walls, and some of them were like, sort of this, these three piece panels that would stretch for 20 feet across a room, and you felt like you were in a forest. But it's all this little kind of dot streaks. It's all when you're up close to it, it just looks like a bunch of little, one inch long slashes of different color. And as you back up, the scene that unfolds, takes your breath away, I'm inspired, you know, that's to do things like I'm thinking, I want to paint more. Yeah, I

Caitlin Green  7:13  
was gonna say that's how I felt when I was at the ATO this weekend. Because obviously there are, as you know, the group of seven, and the indigenous art that they have there is unbelievable, and it's so it's really so special that we have this art that is, like, you know, literally native to Canada, and it celebrates our landscape and the use of color feels incredibly modern. But there's also an art installation by an artist from Scarborough, and the installation is called no limits, and I hope I'm pronouncing his name correctly, Randy or sidh. And it is these beautiful pieces of like mirrored sculptures. And the whole time I was in there, Jan, just like you, I'm thinking, this is really inspirational stuff. It makes you, even if you're someone who's not visually artistically inclined like myself, it makes you want to try painting, or it just makes you want to create more. It's a nice space to be in, and it was a nice thing to again, bring will to because he was so interested. How is this? Why is this all shiny? This seems so sparkly. Why does this glow in the dark, like all that kind of stuff that kids start to kind of take in and absorb, is really special.

Jann Arden  8:14  
That's where it starts. Yeah, you do. I mean, you talk, you talk to so many artists that say, when I was five, when I was seven, my mom took me to the ballet. My mom took me to an art gallery. My parents took me rock climbing. My you know, there, it really is transformative to have young people exposed to the arts or to the outdoors or to nature, and it literally will shift the direction of a person's life. And speaking of people who inspire. I think you've got a few little news updates to tell us on the scroll this week. Caitlin,

Caitlin Green  8:52  
that's part of the official intro. Is Jan's little

Unknown Speaker  8:55  
I can't help it well.

Caitlin Green  8:57  
So speaking of people who are inspirational, inspirational artists, one of the big stories coming out this morning is about the actor awards. Now this is previously known as the Screen Actors Guild, or SAG Awards, and this is an award show that is kind of for actors, and it's from their peers, and so whenever they win these awards, it's really special to them, and it's a very well attended awards show. They do a red carpet with Netflix now. So it is getting bigger and bigger. It used to be very inside baseball, very industry, and I think it's becoming much more mainstream, and it is very often a good indicator of who is the front runner for the Academy Awards, which are going to be coming up on March 15. So this year, one of the big winners was Michael B Jordan. He won Best Actor for his role. He played twins in the vampire horror movie sinners, but it's not a traditional horror movie. When you hear vampire horror movie and like award winning performances, you don't naturally think the two of them go together, but it's the most nominated film at the Oscars this year. I think it's the most nominated film at the Academy Awards of all time right now. Ryan Coogler is the director. Are you kidding me? Yeah, it. It's a huge and it's out. You can watch it at home now. So if you haven't seen it, and you thought to yourself, This probably isn't for me. I don't know about a vampire horror movie, it is definitely worth seeing, and it is very, very highly regarded. So he won, and in recent years, nine out of 10 best actors at the SAG Awards won the Academy Award. And so people are thinking that he could upset the previous fan favorite, which was Timothy Chalamet. So we'll see what happens. Jessie Buckley is pretty much a lock right now to take home Best Actress. She swept award season so far for her role in Hamnet. Hamnet has only earned 23 million at the domestic box office. So if you haven't seen it and you're like, what is that? You aren't alone, but it co stars her and Paul mescal, and it is such a sad, very, very sad premise for a film that some people aren't seeing it because it's based on the life of Shakespeare and his family, but Hamnet is the is their son, their young son, who dies very tragically, and it's the impact that it has on the family. And spoiler alert, yeah, it's spoiler if you didn't know that, it's the premise for the whole film. So, but it's, you know also, it's about his writing of Hamlet. And she just, I mean, Jesse Buckley, when you see her on screen, she's, she steals every scene. So she won. And I think if you have an academy awards pool, you're participating in this year and you want to win, I think you should be voting for her for Best Actress. It sounds way better than a football pool. Just saying, right, I do them. I do them every year for my friend. So you need to have, like, a pop culture addicted friend to do this for you. I don't know who that is in your life, but nominate someone. And then supporting actors seems to be a pretty well favored towards Tiana Taylor, she was in one battle after another. Loved her in that and then they're expecting that the Oscar for Best Supporting Actor might go to Sean Penn, and he also is in one battle after another based on his back to back victories at the BAFTA. It's like the British Academy Awards. And then also he won at the SAG Awards last night, too. So big night. And then the big, big, big thing that everyone was celebrating, of course, is in memoriam. This was a big, huge year for losing major games in Hollywood. Yeah. Big here for dead people, I say with some gallows humor like again, because it's an audience of their peers and awards that are voted on by fellow actors. It really just feels like a special room to be in when the In Memoriam rolls out and you've got Diane Keaton, Robert Redford, Rob Reiner, and, of course, Catherine O'Hara. Catherine O'Hara's In Memoriam portion received a standing ovation. Seth Rogen gave a speech about her, and he did such a wonderful job of encapsulating how magical she was as a talent and as an as a comedian and as an actress. And he worked with her on the studio very closely, and obviously just loved her.

Speaker 1  12:36  
Something that I've just been marveling at over the last few weeks was was really her ability to be generous and kind and gracious while never, ever minimizing her own talents and her own ability to contribute to the work that we were doing, she knew she could destroy, and she wanted to destroy every day, on set and pretty much every evening before she had a shooting day on our show, she would email me and Evan an email that always was pretty similar, and it said, Hello, I hope you'll consider the following, and then there would be a completely rewritten version of the scene she was it, and literally, 100% of the time, it made not just her character better, but it made the scene better and the entire show better as a whole. And she really showed that you can be a genius and be kind, and one of those things does not have to come at the expense of the other in any way, shape or form.

Sarah Burke  13:42  
Before we wrap the scroll, there was one more thing about SNL I'm gonna throw to you for Oh

Caitlin Green  13:46  
yes, let's fit this in really quickly. Connor story, who he plays Ilya rozanov in heated rivalry, one of the main stars for heated rivalry. Yeah. Okay, so Sarah is a fan, as are all women with eyeballs and and men and like, let's not leave the men out. So he was the host of SNL this weekend, and everyone's so excited. Hudson Williams has costar unheated rivalry made an appearance the first time. Everyone's seeing them on screen together. So they love it. And in his opening, monolog, doesn't he just bring out two of the stars of the women's gold medal USA Hockey team, they handled this kind of crappy moment that made everyone feel bad. Specifically, a lot of women feel really bad, certainly women who watch sports, and just women in general, felt really slighted, of course, by this call to recap that Donald Trump made to the US Men's hockey team, where he said, Oh, I'm gonna have to invite the women's team or I'll get impeached. So he brings out the two women, and then has two of the male hockey players, like the stars come out, and he said, Hey, you know, we had to invite the men too, right? Like, I we just had to do it. So it was this really good nod. And I think that having the two male hockey players take part in it did a little something. I'm not gonna say it fixed everything, but I think having them in on this joke to say, like, we're here to be the butt of this joke. We're here to recognize. Like our role in this and how it made everyone feel. I think that that was well played. Not to say that it like glosses over everything, but God, I love Connor's story, and I thought this was a great moment.

Sarah Burke  15:10  
Bing Bong. Bing Bong. We do have one voice note. If you'd love to hear it, I would like to I would

Speaker 2  15:16  
love to hear it. Hi, ladies. It's Lisa calling. I'm a huge fan of the show I have been for so many years. I love Jan. Have followed her music and her career forever, and Caitlin loved when you were on the radio and listened to you all the time. I'm always looking forward to Saturdays when I can listen to the new podcast, usually when I'm out on my walk. Today, I'm getting ready for a trip, for a work business trip, and decided to do my packing tonight and through on the podcast, I'm just have to call and say, just Sarah, so disappointed with your comment about Oshawa. It is Lisa from Oshawa. And you know, I know jannhave also had an issue here a number of years back on the train. I remember that, but she did apologize, and we forgive her, and I'm still a huge follower and still a huge fan. But Sarah, come this way. I've lived here 25 years, and I have plenty of things to show you that really are not an armpit. I know you can do better. Thanks, ladies. Have a great day. I'll keep listening.

Jann Arden  16:18  
Bye, it's your turn. Sarah,

Sarah Burke  16:20  
Lisa, 100% you are correct. Billy, I want to shout out who sent me a note on Instagram who also mentioned that she was very disappointed. And this is what I sent Billy, a voice note myself to her nice, basically saying, listen, being in radio for you know, 1520 years on the air, I heard so many people make this joke that it's like ingrained in my head. Do I believe that? No, so I apologize, and I'm truly sorry for playing into that joke that I was basically just repeating out of habit. If I'm being honest, I have friends that live that way, and like jannsaid, there's beautiful little cafes and, like, cute little spots

Jann Arden  16:58  
all over the place. It's a great city, tons of trees, tons of parks. It's very pet friendly and dog friendly. There's lots of nature. Oshawa is fantastic. And my comment like, and I'll just recap this quickly, was middle of nowhere. And in my defense, I think that is such a blanket statement, I did not know where I was. I didn't know I could have been near Sydney, Australia. I didn't know where this train and so I never it was nothing personal to Oshawa ever, but I did apologize. But you know, when I think back and I don't think I really needed to, because I didn't know where I was, I would have if I was near Toronto, if I would have been near Red Deer or Calgary or Edmonton, it was just a blanket statement because I was they stopped the train in the middle of a field. Anyway, we're sorry, yeah, we

Sarah Burke  17:51  
and let me also just say okay, from behind the scenes in the editing, jannsaid some really nice things about Oshawa after she made that comment, and it was prompted by what I said about the armpit. So I made an editorial call to leave it in, to let jannshine the light on Oshawa, although I definitely thought about this and was like, might get some pushback about that. So I wanted to say a personal apology to Oshawa, to Billy and to Lisa, and maybe when we get our only Jan's, you know, pre sale going, whether you're Patreon members or not, maybe we need to offer our Oshawa friends a pre sale. When we get working on our new show, we'll figure something out.

Caitlin Green  18:29  
Yes, okay, that's, that's a good idea. Absolutely. Postal Code pre sale. I was gonna promo code the schwa.

Sarah Burke  18:35  
We'll work on it. But, yeah, we have a very special guest coming up.

Caitlin Green  18:41  
Yeah, Alanna  McGinn is going to be here. Sleep expert. Alanna  McGinn is going to join us. She's been with us before. Yeah, she's been with us before. She helped me with sleep training for my son will but she's going to be here ahead of the old clock change that's going to be haunting us on Sunday.

Sarah Burke  18:53  
Jen, were you saying it gets you one hour closer to your love?

Jann Arden  18:56  
Yes, we'll be six hours apart instead of seven hours apart. So I'm glad. Well, good for

Sarah Burke  19:01  
one person, and we lose an hour. I don't care you guys. We'll be right back with Elena again.

Jann Arden  19:15  
Oh, I am jannArden. I'm here with Caitlin green, Sarah Burke, and we have a very special guest with us today, Alanna  McGinn. We're going to be talking about something really important, and that is sleep. Alanna  is a sleep specialist, and I want to and you've been on the show before, and you shared so many great things that we heard about for a freaking year, I want you to know that you are the founder of good night's sleep. You work with everyone from babies to adults, to entire workplaces, to deal with sleep issues, helping people actually get a good night's rest is important, and that is what she does her podcast, the bedtime edit. You can go find that and listen to that. It's part of the women in media Podcast Network, which yours truly. Sarah, I'm very proud to be part of that as well. Alanna . Welcome to the show. Thank you for having me. What are we doing wrong?

Sarah Burke  20:03  
Alanna  from the beginning,

Jann Arden  20:07  
yeah, like, what? What's Listen, sleep is big. There's rings, there's bracelets, there's apps, there's people checking their phone. I've seen children with these watches where kids are tracking their sleep and saying, I got nine hours and three minutes, and it is, it is something people are really paying attention to.

Alanna McGinn  20:28  
Yeah, it's one of our main pillars of health. You know, I always kind of break it into four pillars. We have sleep, we have nutrition, we have exercise, and we have connection. I've added connection in there, because I think if we've seen anything in the past. You know, five to seven years, connection is huge for overall health and well being and sleep, not just because it's what I do, but I do believe that sleep is kind of the foundation of the other pillars, because when we're not sleeping well, we don't have the energy to move our bodies like we should be. We don't make great nutritional choices. We're craving more carbs, more sugars. Our body is enabled to metabolize as food as well, and digest food as well and listen for connection. We're not great to be around when we haven't had one great night of sleep or multiple great nights of sleep. So sleep is very important. Sleep is also very finicky. And what I mean by that is I've changed my life since we've last spoken, I've actually changed my language a lot when I'm talking about sleep, of course, when we think about sleep, we're thinking about what we're doing at night, how our bedroom is, you know, how we're setting up a great environment. All of that is very important. But so much of what we do in the morning, so much of what we do throughout the day, is going to affect our sleep at night. And those are the conversations that I'm having more with my clients. And we could be setting up a great sleep environment, but if something is off with us, physically, emotionally, mentally, it's gonna affect our sleep period. So we need to work on more of ourselves throughout the day to sleep better at night. I was

Caitlin Green  22:01  
gonna say For context, but, I mean, I've mentioned this before on the show, but Alanna  helped me come up with a sleep plan, and was our sleep coach when Will was young and when we were getting into sleep training. And I think that's a lot of you know. That's traditionally how a lot of people will like encounter or reference a sleep coach. It's when they're trying to help their kids

Sarah Burke  22:19  
with their sleep this is a gift I should give Joanna, no 100%

Caitlin Green  22:23  
because I was gonna say I cannot co sign someone's expertise enough. It was, it was overnight that our son sleep improved. But I think, really, what, like, Atlanta skill set? Because, like, I, you know, I know from following you on socials and everything you're doing, you're you're also focusing on stress, you're focusing on divorce, you're focusing on coaching in all these areas that contribute to, you know, our sleep, whether you know positive or negative. And so I think when that was the real thing, I tell everyone, when I pass along a land as info, like a little how to guide, I'll say, you know, what you really need is a coach. You need someone to reinforce this. Because, yeah, sure, you can read about sleep online. You can, you can read about sleep training for a baby, but if you don't have someone to reach out to when you're about to fall off the rails, when you say, we've had two really bad nights in a row, you know, I think this is a regression. I don't see the point anymore. They're crying all the time. Like, all these questions that you're going to have about babies, or that you might have for yourself, or that you could have about teens, like, teen sleep is a big thing, too. For a lot of my friends with teenagers, you really benefit from having this strong, confident voice in your corner to say, like, you can do this. Here are the steps you can take. This is proven, and I think that that's why having a coach in that area, it's like, the same way that therapy is helpful. I'm like, You need someone in your corner who is here to help get everything back on track and to assure you, yes, you're doing the right thing. And, like, hang in there. So that's, like, for context for everybody, on like, a personal level, that's how I used your services, and I have given your name out to so many people, because that's how big of an issue sleep is for people. It makes you emotional, and you're just not your best self

Alanna McGinn  23:59  
when you're tired. Yeah. I mean, thank you for all of that. And you know, I loved working with you, and I can't believe how big he's getting. He's so cute. Yeah, listen, when I'm working with families and kids, whether it be babies to teens, it's also about like, sometimes parents really need that permission to do it. Right? Are these steps okay to take? They need the accountability. Because I'm going to check in with them in the morning. I'm going to check in with them a bedtime and make a bedtime and make sure, and then when I'm working with my adult so as you said, a big focus of mine is working with midlife women. Midlife women, yes, there's menopause, yes, there's perimenopause. I love all the conversations that we're having about it. You know, I'm in that stage of life right now, and those conversations are really important. But midlife, we are transitioning careers, we are transitioning relationships. Kids are moving out, kids are moving back in. Parents are getting older, caregiving, all of those things is going to affect our sleep. My niche about that is divorce. Having gone through a divorce myself in the past five years, my sleep took a hit, you know, and like you said, that's why I'm talking more about stress management. Management, because stress management is huge in terms of how well or not well we're sleeping at night. For sure,

Jann Arden  25:06  
a lot of people are talking about it seems to be like the catchphrase is regulating your immune system, like regulating yourself. And you know what people naturally do? Sometimes people make the right decisions without even knowing that they're regulating themselves, whether it's through, you know, exercise, being in nature, listening to the birds, having a hobby, whatever can you speak to that? And I mean, that's got to be in there somewhere. As part of stress management is how we keep ourselves calm 100%

Alanna McGinn  25:38  
a lot of it is regulating our nervous system we are constantly in fight or flight, and that is definitely going to affect how we're falling asleep, how we're staying asleep throughout the night. So a lot of my focus is on pillars of connection, pillars of joy, incorporating joy into our life. So and it could be little micro moments, so things like you said, walking in nature, looking at the birds, enjoying a quiet cup of coffee. It's important to find what values are important to you, right? So what are? And here's the thing, there's so much information right now being thrown at us, especially in that menopause space in order to sleep better, right? In that midlife space, and I'm part of it, right? I'm contributing to it, but we feel, in a way that we have to do it all. You don't have to do it all. Pick the areas of your life that are important to you. What do you want to work on? So is it moving your body more? Is it connection? Is it nutrition? All of those components are going to help you sleep better. Look at it as you know, there's that stress bucket we need to find those, those tools, if you think of kind of a stress bucket with a spout at the bottom right, the spout out the bottom, are those stress management tools? Are those coping skills? So is it moving your body? Is it being one more with nature? Is it incorporating more joy in your life? Is it enjoying those moments and actually claiming those moments and not just moving on to the next thing, right? Taking time to kind of be in that present state of mind as we get older, the water flowing into that bucket, those are our stressors in life, and that bucket gets smaller and the spouts get smaller. So it's so important to learn those stress management tools or those coping skills to reduce that fight or flight, to reduce our cortisol, our stress levels, so that when we go to bed at night, we're able to release that melatonin like we're supposed to in order to get a good night of sleep. So all of that plays such an important part of then just, you know, making sure you have a great mattress and a great pillow. Those things are important, but we need to focus on what we're doing throughout the day as well.

Jann Arden  27:37  
It is an art form sleeping. I mean, I travel. I still travel 200 days a year, basically, and it's always different hotel rooms.

Sarah Burke  27:44  
Elena, you've heard there's a new relationship in Iceland, right?

Alanna McGinn  27:47  
I've been loving all of that, but just make sure she knows I love it. As a woman who recently went through a divorce and is now and also in a new and amazing relationship, Sarah is mad him like I just, I love, love right now, so I'm loving all of it.

Jann Arden  28:05  
Yeah, we try and be together. You know, at least 10 days out of every month when I'm not working as much, it's two weeks she was just here. But we have a seven hour time difference. So in March, we're celebrating the fact that we're going to go to six hours daylight savings. I have adjusted myself, but once her kids are in bed and everything on the weeks that she has the kids, you know, she's doing a laundry, folding things, cleaning kitchens, like at 1130 at night, she's usually in bed by 1130 or midnight, and then up with the kids again, like at seven. But anyway, I usually will go to sleep it's or get into bed at six because we put on WhatsApp and we have a conversation, you know, we'll talk for 45 minutes or something. And I just I could sit in the living room. I could sit out here. I don't go to sleep right away. I end up staying up until 10 o'clock. But I read, I write in my journal, I do a little bit of work stuff, but I sleep really good. The bedroom is dark, like for me this time of year, when it is dark all the time, it is so wonderful to have a dark bedroom. And I I try not to worry too much about looking at my phone. I find it relaxing to look at my phone sometimes. I mean, I'm not looking at car accidents or anything like that, but I'm checking in on my friends, and I do like funny videos, but the last thing that I do before I go to sleep is I'm reading on paper. I'm reading on paper. I have a soft light in my bedroom. I've got my reading glasses on, and I literally read until I cannot keep my eyes open. And when I lay down, I'm like, it is such like a privilege to lay down in a bed with clean sheets and there's no bombs going off. I do have a lot of gratitude when I lay down in my quiet bed. I never lay there without thinking to myself, how lucky I am, how fortunate I am. Never. I never take it for granted, and I think that's part of it too, and I'm i. Literally go to sleep, kind of whispering the mantra of Thank you, thank you, thank you for everything I have. And that's how I go to sleep, and I've done that for years, but

Alanna McGinn  30:09  
that's something that you've likely also cultivated throughout the day as well. It's not something you know you being thankful, and your form of gratitude isn't something that you just think about when you're going to bed, which is the and that's what I'm saying, is that when we start, you know, whether it be journaling or writing out what we're grateful for or what we're thankful for, you can start incorporating that throughout the day as well, and then bring that into the bedtime too. And I know this was a big conversation that we have with you guys last time. I am not the sleep coach that's going to tell you to turn off tech at bedtime. I'm just not, because I recognize the importance of that downtime, of that time where it's like, okay, you know what you're just saying? You know she's putting her kids down, she's doing the laundry and stuff. Those evening hours. Once our kids are asleep, our work is over, our chores are done, those evening hours are gold. So I always felt bad telling in all honesty, women, especially, don't watch TV, don't do the things you love now because you have the time to do it. Those things are bad because they're not if you know, talking with your friends while lying in bed and connecting, watching an episode of your favorite show, because it helps you forget your day. You've just had a really crappy day, and you just want to laugh. And you know, you're we all have a feel good show that we turn on that makes us feel good. You know, certain social media accounts that lift us up. You want to do that before you go to bed. I have no issues with it. If you are lying in your bed for three hours because you're talking, and then you're journaling and you're doing all those things, but you sleep well. Who am I to tell you to change that? Right? So it's just, it's important to find what works for you. We all have our own personal sleep needs. We all have our own personal activities that we do before we go to bed that works best for us.

Sarah Burke  31:59  
Just coming off the end of what jannwas talking about, like it sounds like it sounds like jannhas a good handle on it, but it's been an adjustment. So when there's a swing, there is going to be a swing with daylight savings, but like, maybe it's travel, maybe it's time zone, whatever the swing is. Can you talk about how to walk through a swing? Yeah?

Alanna McGinn  32:16  
You mean when there's, like, a time change, or a change in environment,

Jann Arden  32:20  
yeah, or in your routine, or in routine.

Sarah Burke  32:22  
I'll just give you a piece of context here too. Like, so I'm dating someone now, and I feel like half the week I'm completely unregulated, yeah, coming off of also what jannsaid about regulating yourself just because it's new environment, different time than my chronotype, and maybe we could talk about Chronotypes, but like, it feels like half the week I'm catching up, and then I get settled again, and then I'm catching up again, right?

Alanna McGinn  32:47  
So, I mean, when you're sharing a bed with someone, there are certain adjustments that both need to make, but I think it's also really important to focus on your own personal sleep need. Let's just first talk about environment, right? Whether you're traveling a lot and you're sleeping in unfamiliar places, or you're sleeping in different places, I'm very much of bring those familiar items from home that's going to make an unfamiliar environment more familiar. So it could be, yeah, examples of that could be bedding. It could be part of your routine. If sense, think I would say, think of your five senses. What do you need to see, hear, taste, smell, touch. That works for you, right? So you know your favorite PJs, mint or tea before your mint tea, yeah, like your, your your sleepy time tea, um, if certain scents, if you have, you know the sprays for your bed, or certain candles, always making sure you're blowing them out before you go to bed. Or certain diffusers, aromatherapy that you need before you go to bed. Do you need it pitch black? Are you someone that needs to wear an eye mask or use blackout blinds? Or does that not affect you as much? Sound machines, white noise apps, right? We all have them. Some people need a really quiet where some people need that fan going throughout the my daughter travels with a little fan because she needs it. So anywhere she sleeps, that thing's plugged in. So bringing things from home really helps. When you're sharing a room with someone, again, your environment for you is very important. You're going to have the same mattress. That's just probably a given, right? So you have to agree on that mattress, but it doesn't mean you have to have the same pillow. It doesn't mean you have to have the same bedded your fitted sheet will be the same. But I have saved so many marriages just by saying you can have separate comforters. You can have separate duvets. If you're a night sweater, a hot sleeper, and your partner is a cold one, you know you're not going to want that flannel blanket or that big duvet in July that might work for them. You need a thinner fabric. You need more wicking fibers, more breathable fabric. You know, if you have certain pillows, because you have maybe more neck and hip issues and your partner doesn't have any issues, maybe you're going to have different pillows that you use. That's okay. We tend to kind of buy the same pillows, the same blanket, the same everything. And we share a bed. You don't have to do that. Yeah?

Caitlin Green  35:02  
In Scandinavia, they always have the two separate I always noticed that whenever I would

Jann Arden  35:06  
try, welcome to my world, yeah, we have two different duvets.

Sarah Burke  35:09  
Yeah, yeah, oh my god, yeah. Okay. But what about the time like he goes to bed when his kids go to bed at like, 730 and I'm like, I got

Jann Arden  35:18  
so much I love him.

Unknown Speaker  35:20  
That's a parent through

Sarah Burke  35:23  
and through I'm lying there, like, what am I doing for three hours until I can sleep? I literally would get up and start editing a Jane Arden podcast, literally, because I hate that

Jann Arden  35:34  
feeling, because they run long.

Alanna McGinn  35:36  
So I mean, you guys, mean if you like the bedtime, if you like the going to bed together, feel and I get that. I totally get that you can have that you can go to bed and have the bedtime routine with him, and, you know, we'll we that's, that's a whole other episode on all the other things you can do. But then, when he's like, rolling over and going to bed, if you want to get up and edit a podcast, if you're not ready, the worst, I'll be honest, Sarah, the worst thing that you can do is lie in bed awake while he's snoring away and not be able to sleep. How does she

Sarah Burke  36:08  
know he snores? That's another problem in a whole other podcast.

Alanna McGinn  36:12  
Lots of problems over here. Yeah. I mean, my live podcast with you is, like, that's, that's what happens when you start dating a sleep expert. I'm like, you have sleep apnea.

Sarah Burke  36:21  
She called him out in the audience. He was sitting right there,

Alanna McGinn  36:26  
diagnosed, yeah, I'm like, no, no, you have sleep apnea. Like, 100% sure enough, you did, and sleep

Sarah Burke  36:33  
with the Mass. No, yeah, it's so much better. Oh, better for him.

Jann Arden  36:38  
He probably arrested. Yeah, they're getting smaller. Those machines, they are not the gas mask of World War Two that you literally roll over and think you're fucking waking up next to Skeletor. Like they're not, they're not that isn't

Sarah Burke  36:50  
there a mouthpiece. Now,

Alanna McGinn  36:52  
there's different things. I mean, the best, the best tool for sleep apnea, is a CPAP machine, yeah. But like, jannsaid, like, his is just a small little nose thing. I mean, listen, would he prefer to not wear it, sure, but once he started wearing it, he's like, I can never go back. He can't even take a nap on a couch because you feel it. I think it was like 90 he was stopping breathing 90 times

Sarah Burke  37:15  
anxiety and being like, are you alive during that? There's so many layers.

Alanna McGinn  37:21  
You're not sleeping because you're constantly, like, hitting up soap, vape, breathe, right? Yeah, yeah.

Jann Arden  37:28  
Jesus, Atlanta. That really is scary, but yeah, you're gonna, if you're with a sleep expert, you're going to find out what your issues are.

Caitlin Green  37:38  
Yeah, right? It's kind of a useful little hack

Sarah Burke  37:49  
going back to the swing, though. So like, let's say I'm preparing myself, and Jan's preparing herself to she's going to Iceland. Things are going to shift, daylight savings, whatever. So like, the lead up to a switch. What is best for us? That's I'm interested in.

Jann Arden  38:03  
Yeah, that is good question

Alanna McGinn  38:04  
you can get yourself. So for instance, we're we're losing an hour, right? This is where this time change, daylight saving time. This is where we lose that hour. This is where we get hit the hardest, because we're already that sleep deprived society. So what you can do is, the week leading up to it, you can start going to bed about 15 minutes earlier every day. You can even go to bed 30 minutes earlier each day to kind of adjust your clock to the time that it's going to change too. I always recommend parents do this for kids too, because it can affect our kids a lot as well, destroy the wills sleep every time. Yeah, so start adjusting your sleep 15 minutes, either later or earlier, wherever you're going. I don't know what the Iceland time like, whatever the time zone you're

Jann Arden  38:47  
they don't change. They don't do daylight savings. They're like Saskatchewan. They just stay. They're not stupid. They stay where they are. It doesn't make any difference to farmers or anything else. I don't know why we do it here. I am not a fan of daylight savings.

Alanna McGinn  39:00  
We can touch on that too, because that's a big conversation too.

Sarah Burke  39:04  
Yeah, sort of you know is staying up till 1130 so like, if you're trying to make yourself stay up, but also, like, still maintain the same amount of sleep, right?

Alanna McGinn  39:13  
Well, you do get adjusted. About It takes about a week for us to adjust. So you know, if you're going there for a couple of weeks, then you can maybe, you know, if you can't make it quite to 11, you can make it to 1010, 30, and then eventually you will adjust to that time, if that's what you want to do.

Jann Arden  39:28  
But because I am winding down like literally getting into bed at six, 630 it's much easier for me. And honest to God, when it's dark here, it's pitch black. I'm not a huge television person. I'm just not doing that at night. So I can sit out here with the dog, but he's like, can we go to bed? And I actually am more productive. I'm comfortable. I've got great pillows. And like I said, I don't go to sleep till 930 or 10, so she's seven hours ahead. That's five o'clock in the morning. She's been asleep all that time, but I'm still it helps me get adjusted. Going, Sarah, I know that. Doesn't really answer your question, but I think what I'm doing does help me adjust for when I'm when I go there, because that's, yeah, my life now. That's not going to end.

Alanna McGinn  40:10  
That's right. So it's little changes that you can do to kind of help you adjust. And the same one is just something as simple as Daylight Saving Time or going back to standard time in the fall. It's just making those then you would go 50 minutes later each day to adjust to the new time.

Jann Arden  40:25  
I want to talk about alcohol. I want to talk about alcohol. We all know, every woman, man that I know, alcohol affects you differently as you get older, but it steals sleep. You will fall asleep on two glasses of wine, but you will wake up. Alcohol will wake you up. So let's, let's address that. Because, you know this mommy time, wine hour and stuff, it drives me crazy, because I think it's not great for anybody. I know alcohol is part of human life, but I think it's not taken as seriously as it should be. And all the studies tell us that any amount of alcohol is not good

Sarah Burke  40:58  
for and we have new studies since the last time Alanna  came on, yes, the show.

Jann Arden  41:01  
So, so let's address that for for women that are, you know, five o'clock, it's my time. It's mommy's time. I'm gonna have I don't think wine is a reward. I'm just gonna put that out there. You can send me voice notes telling me that. I don't know what I'm talking about, but I just want to talk about it.

Alanna McGinn  41:17  
Yeah, I mean, like you said, alcohol is definitely going to help you fall asleep, but once the alcohol leaves your system, it's causing more fragmented sleep. So that's why, if you if you listen, if you have a healthy relationship with sleep, and for the most part, you sleep. Okay, having a glass of wine isn't going to do any harm. But if you're already struggling with sleep, in my opinion, alcohol, stress. Alcohol and stress are probably two of the biggest sleep and tech. I will say tech, even though I'm okay with tech, some tech is not great. Is are probably the biggest sleep busters in our lives, especially for midlife women, especially for women. So if it might help you fall asleep easier, but it's going to cause more fragmented sleep throughout the night. Also, as we get older, we also have to maintain an equal blood sugar level while we're sleeping. I know for myself, as I'm getting older, and now I'm in that midlife space, if I have a glass of wine, I know I'm not going to sleep well, it's going to spike my blood sugar. I'm not going to get a great night of sleep. So you have to make adjustments as you you know age and as you go through different transitions. What used to be okay probably isn't okay anymore for your sleep. So if you are looking to make some changes, and you are having those five o'clock glasses of wine, maybe one or two a night, that's what you want

Sarah Burke  42:39  
to I heard recently. I can't remember which podcast I was listening to, but it was suggested that if you have to have the glass of wine, or maybe it's two glasses, that it's glass of wine, then glass of water, glass of wine, then glass of water. And three hours until you sleep. See, I

Alanna McGinn  42:56  
push it to four. I push any like I push alcohol, or any big meals at least four hours before you go to bed.

Sarah Burke  43:03  
What about exercise? Yeah, good question.

Alanna McGinn  43:06  
Yeah. Exercise depends on the individual, so exercise is going to spike our cortisol in a good way, right? Exercise is important if you, again, are someone who's struggling to sleep well at night, you don't want to have a nighttime spike of cortisol, right? And do that night. Now, I know a lot of people who can, like, have two cups of coffee after dinner and sleep great, and who can have a class, you know, after dinner and guilty as charged. Oh, I am so jealous of people like that. I cannot do that then. So if you're, if you're that person again, I'm not going to tell you to change it, to stop drinking the coffee, or to not work out at night. But for those people that are more sensitive to caffeine, for those people that are more sensitive to exercise and those cortisol spikes, working out in the morning or early morning is probably the best. Yeah, okay, I have your body is important.

Caitlin Green  43:56  
I have a couple more rapid fire questions for you. Naps, yes or no.

Alanna McGinn  44:01  
Again, depends on the person a nap. For someone who has a healthy relationship with sleep, if you want to take the occasional nap, I have no issues with it. For those who are struggling, think about your daytime think about us having a gas tank. It's a sleep tank. We want to we want to fill that tank really full that's going to help us fall asleep well at night. So by doing that, we're waking up consistently. We're immersing ourselves in natural light. We're moving our bodies. So if we nap throughout the day and you're already struggling with sleep, that's like driving 10 kilometers. You're removing that gas from the tank, which you don't

Caitlin Green  44:32  
want to do, okay? And then for kids, specifically night lights, like my son's afraid of the dark all of a sudden. But yeah,

Alanna McGinn  44:39  
I know I have no issues with inlets. Honestly, I don't making sure. It's like, think reds, yellows, stay away from the blue, the white lights. Unfortunately, everything's LED now, right? But you don't want the bright lights, the greens, the blues or the whites. You want the yellows, oranges or reds. I have an

Caitlin Green  44:55  
illegal incandescent anyways, and how many hours? Per night. Ideally, there's always these debates, and it's sort of like this ever moving target. It's probably different based on age and gender. But what are your thoughts for adults?

Alanna McGinn  45:07  
You mean, yeah, yeah, I'm saying anywhere between six to nine. You are a person who's only getting four or five, and you're telling me that you feel fine on that. It's a very small population that can really function and be well rested overall on four to five. So any like, some nights you might need six, some nights you might need eight. I think if you kind of aim for that, you're good young kids and teens, younger kids you're looking at anywhere between 14 to 15 hours. So kids need a lot more sleep than we do as they get older. That lessens. But even teens you're looking I have three of them, you're even looking at anywhere from nine to 10 hours. So they still need more sleep that we're getting. Unfortunately, they likely aren't getting it. And there's a whole other, you know, issues and obstacles with teen sleep in terms of when they're falling asleep and how much sleep they're getting, the

Sarah Burke  45:55  
trial and error part of like, my last like, since you've last been on the podcast, really the power of the consistency is interesting, because it's like, oh, six hours, but consistently and like, waking up at that same time, I actually feel way better than, like, eight hours a couple times a week.

Alanna McGinn  46:10  
That's right. I always say, practice that 8020 rule, 80% of the time. Protect your sleep space. Protect the time you're going to bed, the time you wake up. Honestly, our morning wake up is more important, in my opinion, than your bedtime. Okay? Because how we wake up and when we wake up again, we want it. We don't want to sleep in too much. 20% of the time you're gonna sleep in a little bit. That's okay. But remember, it's all about filling that tank, right? So the more consistent we are with our morning wake up, the more time we have throughout the day to fill that sleep tank, how we're waking up to how many of us are boom or as soon as we wake up, we're turning off the alarm, and we're doing that. We haven't even gotten out of bed yet, and we're checking the news, checking our emails, checking

Jann Arden  46:51  
our work. We want to know if he's dead. I love that someone

Caitlin Green  46:56  
wake me up in the middle of the night. Happens, by the way, anyway.

Jann Arden  46:59  
Yeah, exactly. Please call me. There should be an app. There should be

Alanna McGinn  47:05  
an alert app, right? But we're allowing all that stress into our brain, into our body, into our mind, and our feet haven't even hit the floor yet. So I would say, give yourself 30 minutes. Turn off the alarm, fair enough, but then get out of bed. Move your body. Have a quiet cup of coffee. Sit with your dog, sit with your partner before you check into the rest of the world. Because news is, I mean, it's not great.

Caitlin Green  47:28  
Is it good if you get up and immediately are forced to play Monster Trucks,

Alanna McGinn  47:33  
that's fine. Absolutely, it's getting you off. Because that's not stressful, unless you find it stressful, that's totally fine. Great.

Jann Arden  47:39  
Alanna , again, we have one last question for you. I'm gonna throw it over to Caitlin once again. And we like to know, you know, Caitlin, take it away. Caitlin, yeah,

Caitlin Green  47:47  
we like to ask, you know, our guests, especially people who are in kind of like the health and wellness space, like, what do you do to make yourself feel better? What do you do to kind of relax and unwind

Alanna McGinn  47:55  
and manage your stress? So few things that I've been really focusing on incorporating more joy into my life. So whether that be a walk outside, whether that be going to listen to live music, and I'm not just saying this because I'm on the jannOdom podcast, but I love listening to live music, any of those things, so I focus on a lot of what I'm doing throughout the day, but something that I've been finding myself doing a lot, and I hated it, is lying on the couch watching TV, and I got my phone, and I'm just scrolling and scrolling and scrolling and scrolling, and I would catch myself do it, and I hate it. So now I am crocheting. My phone is watching TV, because Caitlin knows I love all my trashy TV, as she does, but I'm crocheting instead, and again, then I'm bringing that into bedtime, and it helps me sleep better.

Caitlin Green  48:41  
So 2026, was dubbed the year of hobbies because it was the number one thing that I think people who were pulled said that they wanted to do as a New Year's resolution. And my, my dad's partner, she crochets constantly, and I think it really helps her. I have friends who are getting into knitting. I want to get into knitting. So I'm like, I think I'm just going to transition into a full like old lady, and just get into it, because I want to be able to make a sweater, and it feels like a productive thing to do, because right now I just do the New York Times Games app. I will say that like that is a fun thing to do if you want some phone time, and it's not going to bum you out. I highly recommend that, but I think I need something a little more tactile. So, Okay, interesting.

Jann Arden  49:19  
Just a warning to all you people who are knitters, young people, and if you're traveling, you cannot take knitting needles on a plane. So just gonna put that up there. If you're like, I'm gonna finish that sweater on our way to Amsterdam. No, you are not, because they don't allow knitting needles. Because you know, you know how we can all be with our knitting needles.

Sarah Burke  49:41  
You'll have to do something else before bed to relax. Yeah.

Jann Arden  49:44  
Alanna , again, thank you so much for being on the jannArden podcast. We appreciate you so much. You always leave us thinking about what we can do, and I'm sure our listeners are going to just take a lot in of what you said. It's different for everybody's sleep, and don't be too hard on yourself. Off. I don't think sleep is static. I think as we age, our patterns change constantly. So you know, just because you have had a rough go for for six weeks, don't lose faith. Wouldn't you say that last word is going to be yours?

Alanna McGinn  50:13  
Alanna , no, absolutely. Listen, we are all born with the ability to sleep. We're going to go through periods in our life where sleep is a little bit harder, but it's, it's, it can be worked on, you know. And I want people to focus on their sleep, but don't hyper focus on your sleep, because that's not good either.

Jann Arden  50:28  
Okay, Atlanta, McGinn, founder of good night sleep, thanks for coming to see us, and we will see you very I hope you'll come back Absolutely. Thank you, Alanna .

Alanna McGinn  50:37  
Thank you. This was fun.

Sarah Burke  50:39  
One thing we didn't actually come back around to talking about with Alanna  was the end of Daylight Savings Time abruptly in BC this week. So I just wanted to play this little clip of what Alanna  had to say on that topic.

Alanna McGinn  50:49  
So BC has decided to adopt permanent daylight saving time. So what that means is that when the clocks change on Sunday, because their clocks are changing on Sunday, for those that don't know to daylight saving time, they're not going to change back to standard time come fall. They are staying on permanent Daylight Saving Time. Let me start off by saying I am all for getting rid of the time change, but it's important for overall health science and well being that we make the correct time change permanent. And daylight saving time, the springtime change is not the one. Here's what we have to understand. In the fall, time change, Standard Time, we get more light in the morning. Daylight Saving Time, springtime change, we get more light in the evening. So the argument is, it is better for individuals mental health because it provides us more light in the evening, encouraging people to go out, be more active, have better social lives. Our bodies naturally run off of a 24 hour natural clock. This clock does not shift when we go through time changes when we go through different time zones. For shift workers, it remains a 24 hour fixed period based on our external environment, the light and the dark of the day, Standard Time, the fall time change is more aligned with our natural clock when we change to daylight saving time in the spring, when we lose that hour of sleep, we are now misaligned with our natural body clock. So when we get more sunlight in the morning and the fall time change, this benefits our health, because we're waking up more naturally. We're getting in that natural light in the morning. It helps us to build a stronger drive to sleep. It keeps us on better sleep schedules. So staying on permanent Daylight Saving Time is going to mean that we are now permanently misaligned with our natural clock. Having so much light later in the evening, we are going to see inconsistent sleep schedules, inconsistent sleep patterns, which are already so hard for people to uphold. Let's be honest. From a medical and health standpoint, staying on permanent daylight saving time, we will see an increase in heart attacks, in strokes, increase in cancer, increase of depression and anxiety, increase in metabolic and weight gain issues, increase in car accidents. So listen, I am all for getting rid of the time change. It is not necessary, but we need to look at it from a medical and health standpoint and make sure that we are changing it to the correct time change on that standard time in the fall two more times, and then we can get rid of it.

Jann Arden  53:15  
Well, thank you so much as always for being here. Our listeners are our most treasured people on the planet, tell your friends all about our podcast. We would appreciate that, and stay tuned for Patreon. God only knows what we're going to be talking about. And keep those voice notes a coming. If you've got sleep issues you want to talk about, if you've got questions, just leave us a voice note. For crying out loud, you might end up on the show. We will see you next time on The Jen Arden pod. Totally. Do you?