Sarah McLachlan: A New Album and Lilith Fair Documentary

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So

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today's guest is a Grammy winner, a humanitarian, the mastermind behind the legendary Lilith fair Festival, and she is just now releasing a brand new album, September the 19th, after 11 years. It's called Better broken. And on top of that, there's a documentary about Lilith fair premiering at none other than tiff this year. So please welcome an artist who rivals me for the title of most likely to make you cry while driving Sarah McLachlan, Sarah, welcome to the Jann Arden podcast. Where the hell are you? 

I am Anne Tofino, Vancouver Island. 

Listen. I'm going to get right to it. Thank you for one thing, for joining us. I am probably the most excited person in the world about your new record, and it's been a lot of years since you recorded 11 years. Yeah, tell me why. Why the 11 year gap? I just think it was timing, like I was very busy. I had two teenage daughters. I was a dance mom. I was

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Board Chair of both my foundation and my music schools. I was one of the principal fundraisers. So I was wearing a lot of hats, and music just kind of took a bit of a sideline for a while.

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And I have never been prolific at all, either. So

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I actually wrote a whole bunch of songs for a during and around and after a long, hideous breakup that that took a long time to dismantle and, um, put those songs aside for a while, and then kind of as I revisited them a bunch of years later, I'm like, oh, it's like, bad diary injuries, like nobody needs to hear this shit. But there was one song that sort of stood out, and that was wilderness, which was kind of like this just kind of tells the whole story. So why do I need any of the other stuff? But then I realized, Oh, shit. Now I got to go and write a bunch more songs, because I now no longer have enough material for a record, but I went into the studio with Tony Burke and will McClellan and got this just this amazing synergy of working together and being creative and being collaborative again. And it just, I ended up finishing a bunch of other songs really quickly. So it all just came together after making that decision, you know, to be in the studio and work on what I had, and the other stuff will come. I was looking at some of the beautiful images from a photo shoot. And I believe there was a video for gravity that was shot as well that you did to fino, yeah, yeah. I mean, I love the fact that you're so grounded in that place. I mean, you're such a West Coast you've been like the greatest champion for, well, Tofino, the chain of islands out there. But you look so fucking amazing, right? I saw, I saw your your tour, no, but you did. You're just, you're so well, like you are a person of the trees and the air and hiking and being out there, and you seem like you're in such a good place in your life. And I'm wondering how you felt about being photographed again, doing videos again after a big break. Was it very kind of serendipitous stepping back into that? I mean, you must feel good about people saying you have not changed since your last record, like you look better now. I've had so many people come up to me, Sarah, and say, Have you fucking seen McLaughlin? Like, what is she? Is she micro dosing something like an age defying elixir? I said, I don't know. She's just, I think she eats a lot of broccoli. I don't know. I'll ask her, I eat a shit ton of broccoli. It's true,

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but I'm just yeah, I'm really happy. I'm really happy in my life, in the choices I've made. I feel really solid in myself. I feel grounded.

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And, you know, the photo shoot and the videos have been the easiest ones I've done. And it's funny because, yeah, I'm almost 58 I have wrinkles,

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um, you know, I have a ton of sun damage because I surf every day, and I've only just recently started putting on sunscreen, which don't it's just, I'm just, I'm so bad at all that stuff, I just don't really think about it,

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but I feel freer than I ever have in my life to just go, this is who I am. I am middle aged. I'm, you know, I

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I just feel an ease about all of it, and it's, it's been really amazing to just go, Yeah, you know what? I have some bags under my eyes. I have this, I have that. I have these little jowls. I'm like, whatever I know. I'm almost 58 years old. Yeah, I feel great, yeah, like my body's working. Like I was driving. I drove my stepdaughter down to Victoria to go to school a couple days ago. It's like a four and a half hour drive, and I was driving back, and I was.

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Like, man, you know, my body feels pretty good usually after a drawing, a long drive like that. You know, you're really stiff. And I'm like, I feel good. I'm so lucky. My body still works. I feel healthy.

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I'm just like, grateful, super grateful every day for everything in my life. And I don't know if that has anything to do with it, but absolutely, I'm really happy. Really happy. And you know, I think manifesting a positive energy,

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being grateful for where you're at, the place that you're at. Yeah, I have aches and pains, but I'm like, everything works, so I'm just hold it, holding on to that every day, of like, I feel good today, I'm grateful for how I feel. I'm thankful for it, and I don't take it for granted. It's super inspiring. And I've always said this to you. You are the real deal, and you're so authentic. And for me, just watching you over the last 30 years,

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do what you do, and speak your truth, and I remember you, and I you probably remember this. It was a long time ago, and we had coffee together. One day, you had called me. We would just went and had coffee, and you were in just a tough spot. I was going through town, touring or something, and we had this heart to heart conversation, and I left that day feeling like you had taught me

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so much in the 45 minutes that we sat and had a coffee, and I just was, I just thought, oh my god, I'm so grateful to this woman. You've been a huge guiding light for me over the years. You were, you were recording before I was and I just thought, oh my god, here's this beautiful, fucking talented girl, and maybe I can do this too, maybe someone like me from Spring bank, Alberta, singing these this kind of music, and you always were very encouraging to me. I don't know how if you remember that, but over the years, you've been extraordinarily encouraging to me. And I just want people to know that, because I don't think we say those kinds of things often enough of the kind of person you are, well, thank you and that you want other people. Are there other women to win?

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Yeah, and honestly, Jann, I remember that conversation profoundly too, because I was in a dark place, and it was so

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important for me to connect with you as an artist, as a woman doing this weird job that we both have that is isolating and strange. And

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it was really, it was really great just to connect with you and talk through stuff and feel normal in a really, you know, in a way that's like, you know, I didn't feel normal. I don't usually feel normal, but, yeah, so it's overrated. It is overrated. But, I mean, I just, my point is I really appreciated having that time to talk with you as well, and we don't do it enough. But, you know, I sort of feel like we're, we're kindred spirits. You know, we don't get to spend enough time together or talk about stuff, but when we do

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it's intense and important. So yeah, thank you for that. I'm Yeah, no, you're very welcome. I'm gonna hand it over to Caitlin, because what I do, Sarah is I hog these podcasts. I need some back, and nobody says a fucking word except me. So Caitlin, Sarah, Caitlin, has, we all have so many questions, and we're, I want to get through a lot of them, so I'm going to stop with the gushing stuff. But just know

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the people are so excited that you're going to be on this week, and you generally, you carry with you so much nostalgia with people. People attach memories to their your music, you know, meeting the love of their life, making love, being at a party, going to school, going through things. Sarah McLachlan that your music and the people that you involved in your circle read Lilith fair, what you did there. So I'm going to hand it over to Caitlin, because she I just want you to have the opportunity. I have a prop. I have a prop. I was going to say, we're going to go from Jann gushing to me gushing. So the prop that I brought, and I dug this out of my storage, I held on to my original Lilith fair ticket from August 16, 1998

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the proof, the proof. And then, not only that, the next year, August 21 1999 This is the full rundown. So this is, like the little pamphlet you would get that was the artwork. And then on the back is the lineup of the artist that played. And it was Deborah Cox, Dixie Chicks, Indigo Girls, Sheryl Crow, and then Sarah McLaughlin. That was the main stage. And I remember going with, like all of my girlfriends. I think the year that this, that this year was we were all 15, we sat on lawn together, and they would, you know, we would go back. We would go back and see the current iterations of Lilith fair. And you're right, Jann, like the nostalgia around this was so huge. And I feel like because I then went on to work in radio, and I at the time, didn't even realize sort of the power on a music industry sense of what Sarah was doing.

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Doing with Lilith fair, like I didn't I growing up, I didn't realize that radio stations wouldn't play two female artists back to back, and then I go on to be on a radio station where it's like, Dua Lipa into Sabrina carpenter into Taylor Swift. You know, we would have these blocks of songs where we wouldn't even hear a male artist. And so I was like, so this stuff, I didn't realize how important it was at the time. I just went, because these were the artists that I was listening to. I wanted to go with my girlfriends, and it felt like a rare, inclusive space where we just knew it was going to be good vibes and good music. So that's my fan girl moment.

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And now there's a documentary, kind of to celebrate all of the nostalgia and get a behind the scenes look at this. And it's, it's premiering, of course, at TIFF this year. Sarah, before we started recording, you were saying how you're coming into town for it. You're going to be doing press for the lead up. And I'm really curious about the experience of this documentary for you. Like, how did it feel to revisit lilifair through the lens of a documentary? Were there moments that surprised you, even though you lived it? Like, how did that feel?

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I think the overall feeling was a great sense of pride and for getting to be part of it, nostalgia for all of it, little bit of PTSD in some moments

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as well, you know, revisiting some of the press conferences and some of the challenges, the bomb threats, the pro lifers.

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But generally, you know, I mean, I think Allie and the team did such a fantastic job of, you know,

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culling down months and months and months of work into a 90 minute piece

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that really encapsulated all of this, the joy, the challenges, the the the

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safe spaces that were created for both us as artists and for the audience. You Caitlin, you mentioned this like just to be able to

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come to

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a thing like this and show up as you are and be celebrated, be accepted, not, not an issue,

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you know. And I think I didn't, I didn't actually realize the power of that, you know, as a, as a straight, white woman,

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my, you know, I had a chef. I was very lucky that we had a chef who was with us. He was he wasn't out and, and I remember him being tormented about telling his family and about how the crew would accept this and and it was just so surprising to me that that was even an issue, you know, but it this was 1987

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or, sorry, 1997

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and it was still very much a thing. He was that to feel comfortable being out, and that was where he kind of blossomed. And was like, okay, it's okay for me to

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to be myself here. And that's just one, you know, Dan Levy told me the same thing, you know, a young boy coming to this, this, you know, this show where it's like, oh, everybody's holding hands, and it's a good vibe. I feel like I can actually be myself here and be okay with it. And I think that's, you know, we we desperately still need places like that to exist where we can all just be ourselves and not just be ourselves, but be, you know, be elevated and be cherished for our differences, instead of crucified for them. You know, yeah,

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yeah. But that's, that's another whole story. Yeah. I also feel like it was a rare bright spot too at the time, because you consider it in the context of, you know, there was Woodstock 99 and a whole host of horrible things that happened around that festival for women. Yeah, there was, you know, a lot of the other festivals were, like, very bro culture dominated, you know, not to throw anyone under the bus, Warped Tour a little bit. But like, I remember not that I didn't enjoy going to those, but the vibe was so different. So as a as a woman, it was just it was, I remember thinking it was really, really exciting and welcoming, and a rare place where all of our parents, when we were early days, high school or junior high, would actually drop us off. We would go and sit on the lawn, and they were not concerned about us, as if we were going to other shows. It was they knew the vibes, the reputation, sort of preceded the festival in the most positive way possible,

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which is great. And, I mean, yeah, you're right. I mean, I would go to hoard or Lollapalooza, and it's just a different vibe. Like, as a woman, you're like, you just,

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I remember very this is an aside, but I just saw this Jillian Anderson piece talking about this her young lover. And he was she was asking him, what's what are you most afraid of? I said, I'm most afraid that women will laugh at me. And

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he said, What are you most afraid of? We're afraid. I'm afraid that you will rape me or kill me. I.

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Yeah,

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this is the inherent difference. I mean, you know, that's no, it's a broad stroke, but it's not untrue, it's a broad stroke, but it's like, yeah, we're, we have very we're just used to, I remember, you know, getting my ass grabbed, like there was just all these things that were kind of normalized that now finally, thank goodness. You know, things are shifting. And it's like, oh, I guess it,

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it isn't okay to do that then. But then we have, you know, the President of the United States saying that it's just fine. So, well, then, well, then, yeah, there's a resurgence in this type of festival, Brandy Carlisle bringing the, you know, Girls Just Want to weekend, yeah, there it's, it's coming back, all of this. Yeah, I don't think, I don't think it ever, I don't think it ever went anywhere. I mean, you know, Girls Rock Girls Rock camps, Brandi Carlile, Taylor Swift, having women open up for her, we as women, living in these systems that were created by men, for men. If we want things to change, I think it's like, if we can get a position of power. Not only do we need allies in men, but we also need to bring lift each other up and try and change the narrative that we're all in competition with each other, because it's just, it's just perpetuating this idea that we have to fight each other to

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to get to a better place where it's like, no we need we all need each other. We need to carry each other and lift each other up and support each other. And there's such a strength in that

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I want to talk about better broken 11 years since you had a major

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label release, and I cannot stop listening to or talking about gravity. And I heard you play it, and I did reach out to you afterwards, and you were kind enough to send me like a demo that you weren't finished it yet you were about to do like this amazing string section piece on it. Tell me about the song, because you talked, talked about taking this 11 year break. You had teenage kids. A lot was going on. You had a very contentious relationship with, you know, one of your daughters in particular, and this, this song stopped the audience in its tracks. Sarah, you were at the show as well. Yes, yeah. And I was in tears. I felt like I'd heard it a million times, but it was so new and so fresh. So talk, talk to me about that song and and better broken like how you're feeling about the record in general.

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Well, as far as having a new record out, I mean, I'm I'm incredibly

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I love this record so much. I'm so proud of it.

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I, you know, every other record I've ever done, by the end of the process, I'm so sick of it. I don't want to hear it. And I keep listening to this record. I just, I love the songs I I love what we created.

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You know, gravity, I think is

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it's, it's not Angel, but it's another one of those songs for me that is just so, so deeply personal.

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And you know, writing about this challenge that I have, this ongoing challenge that I had with my daughter where, you know, she went through a year of university during covid and had a terrible time, came home a mess. And

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I could not reach her. I didn't know how to help her, to fix her. We did a family systems counseling, which I just was a miracle for us, and peeling back all the layers of the onion and recognizing that the way I was parenting, you know, I thought I was doing the polar opposite that my parents did, or my mother did for me, and somehow, even though I was using totally different language, the same feeling was happening that, you know, you don't hear me, you don't get me. I don't feel safe, which is devastating as a parent, because that's obviously not what I was, not what I was trying to impart.

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But so to recognize that and go, Okay, I need to shift the way I communicate, because clearly it's not working, and finding out a different way, like reaching her like it was just it was so amazing for both of us, for her to go, Oh, you. You aren't trying to make me feel like shit. You're actually trying to help me. This is coming from a place of love. But I didn't recognize that. And so just all those different kinds of communications

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and getting to a place where,

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what all these things that we thought were, you know, impetuousness and just this anger that we couldn't place, it was anxiety she would hit this wall, and when things got really hard, and she just couldn't find a way through and it would shut her down. And I don't have anxiety, I didn't recognize it as that. She wasn't able to articulate it.

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So it just we kept hitting this wall for so many years, and it took this family systems counseling to for me to go, Oh my God, to recognize it for what it was.

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Yeah, so that I would parent completely differently. And it was such a beautiful and painful seismic shift to

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get to this place where, okay, now I understand, and for her to be able to for me to be able to reach her, and for her to be able to accept that

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just changed everything completely for us in our relationship, and it's just been so much better ever since. I'm so thankful for it. And but the song is about that sort of place in between where you're like, as a parent, you see your kids suffering and you can't reach them. It's terrifying. And like, I'm here, I'm right here. I love you. I've got you, I've got your back,

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but you're not hearing it. You're not seeing it. Fuck. What do I do? And it's terrifying,

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but, and you know, we've, I've had a number of conversations with my daughter about discussing this as publicly as I have, because it's one thing for me to talk about my own feelings about something, but when you're bringing somebody else, somebody else's story in, and it's a very, you know, it's a vulnerable, sensitive topic, and she's like, No, I'm totally fine with it, Mom, I want you to talk about it. I think it's important for people to know. And I'm like, Okay, so, yeah, it's, uh, I love that song so much I love singing it. And for me, you know, I don't feel, I don't feel the pain of it. I feel the release from it every time I sing that song. And that's how I felt about Angel, you know, it was one of those, and it's set. And I every person I play gravity for whether they're a daughter or a mother of children, like, it's like, oh, God, I totally understand this. I mean, we've all struggled as parents. It's a hardest fucking job on the planet.

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And every child, every relationship, is such an intimate dance, figuring out how to navigate it. So

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I think for me, it was important to talk about openly, you know, and for me to go, Hey, I had to eat a lot of humble pie. I thought I was doing a great job as a parent. And turns out I sucked. And

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just with, you know, with my one kid, you know, my my second daughter is, like, we have, it's a very easy relationship, like, we're just, we're similar in so many ways, and so it's just an easier relationship. And my eldest, it was, we were kind of oil and water, so trying to figure out how to navigate that was, you know, very different. But to be able to write about these things, I mean, for artists, it's such a profound privilege to be able to go, this is what I feel like. Do you feel like there's a theme to this album? I know Spotify. It's like one single at a time, like all the streamers are, like, they grab songs and they ended up on a fucking playlist. And but you make it, I still make albums too, with the whole idea in mind. And I was wondering if you did that, there's never a whole idea in mind to start with, it just sort of evolves and one and themes tend to reveal themselves over time. I think reclamation, reclaiming self is a massive one here. And

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sorry, I have a very loud vocal doggy at my feet.

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I'm waiting for my walk, Mom, come on. So, yeah, reclamation of self,

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resilience. I've lived a ridiculous, privileged life, but I've still, you know, I've lost two parents to a long, ugly battle with cancer. You know, I've gone through some challenges in my life that, have, you know, forced me to take a good, hard look at myself and my choices, you know, and we don't get to this point unscathed. And Jan to your point like it is such a privilege to be an artist, to be able to dig into that stuff and find a way through with music. I mean, that has always been

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the most valuable form of therapy. It's so cathartic, which is why, as I said, when I sing these songs now afterwards, it's not like something come up with any amazing answers, but it just allows me to find a place to put it, where I can manage it. And I've actually worked through it enough so that I feel nothing but like relief and joy and release when I when I sing these songs.

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How do you feel about the impending press, the relentless similar questions that you're going to be answering, being thrust back in a limelight? I know you got a little taste of that by going out on the road. I mean, it's been 30 years since fumbling towards ecstasy came out. People freaked out about you going out and doing that record. I feel like you were a little blown away by the response to that tour, like when you stepped out and you just people showed up Celeste.

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Liberties, people with their daughters, people that were now 50 years old, with their 75 year old mothers, that were just revisiting a place in their life. We touched on that a little earlier on the podcast. Were you surprised by that? Yeah, I was kind of overwhelmed by the response. I had no idea of the intensity of people's attachment to that particular record, like you said, like, I just met so many people were like, this was the record that got me through high school, through university, through all these seminal changes in their lives, and it was there with them. And I mean, I think that's kind of the most beautiful validation as an artist, to have someone tell you that something that you've created has really helped them and helped them through a tough time. I mean, that's that's what music does for me, when I think about the, you know, the songs that resonated the strongest with me and made me feel and made me, you know, someone could articulate something that I couldn't articulate, and it made me feel less alone. And I think that's one of the most beautiful gifts that music has for us, is it connects us to ourselves and to each other. And yeah, makes us feel like, okay, maybe I can, maybe I can get through this, because someone else has gotten through it, and they've, yeah, they're kind of showing me the way a little bit.

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Do you do they have massive press junkets for you plan like, is like, is that all? Yeah, if you're not a YouTuber in her hands,

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yeah, there's definitely, you know that that it's, it's not my favorite part to talk about the music. My favorite part is singing the music. But you know, I recognize it as you know, it's part of the job. And if it allows me to get up there and sing every night and

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have that beautiful emotional release that happens when I sing live, and the connection that I feel like I'm part of something bigger than myself, is like church for me, if I get to do that every night, then all the other stuff is, you know, that's fine, I'll do it.

27:04  
Beats the hell out of digging ditches. Come on. I mean, it's, it's not a hurt, it's not that tough a gig.

27:11  
Well, it's still, it's, you have to leave the dogs, and you have to leave, you know, your your surfboarding, and you

27:23  
Well, the fact that you do that is mind boggling to me, but it is a lot. You step from one world into the other, for sure, and I'm sure you that must have crossed your mind going, and you have a partner now, and you have a, you know, an extended family, and you're just like, you must have had some kind of conversation like, Honey, this, this is what I'll be looking at for the next year and a half.

27:46  
Yeah, by the way, you know how I've been kind of off for the last six years.

27:52  
It's a little different now, yeah, but you know, there's it. It's not, I'm not going to tour the way I used to. I used to go up for two years, and I'm just, I'm too old for that. I don't want to do that anymore. I don't have to. So I think, you know, I'll go out for a couple months like I know I'm gone essentially from

28:13  
the 10th of September, kind of, to the first week of December, right? So, good solid two months.

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Anybody could do hard things for two months. It's fine. You know, there's there again, I'm also there's that two hours of every night where I'm performing, which is amazing and wonderful. Hey, oh my goodness, they're just like, basically mawing at each other down here on the floor. No, it's terrifying, like you are talking to an invisible thing. Again. I hate it. We're not going to keep you forever. Caitlin, I do want to just hand it back to you, just for a couple more questions, and just remind people that Sarah has a brand new, beautiful record coming out, better, broken, first album in 11 years. And you have to listen to this record, and if you get a chance to see Sarah, for God's sakes, no, it's, I would imagine you're going to be focusing on the new record, but also having your catalog definitely make some appearances throughout, for sure. Yeah. I mean, I had to cancel the fumbling towards legacy Canadian Tour last year because I got sick and

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lost my voice for a bunch of months. I actually it's for a while. I didn't know whether I'd be able to sing this new record because I did damage to my vocal cords,

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but they're better now, yay. And so I'm redoing it this this October,

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but I'm also viewing it kind of as a soft launch of the new record, so I'll definitely be doing at least a couple, three, four songs off the new record, yeah, as part of this tour. And then I'm going to be doing some shows in America, I think in mid to late November. I kind of want to know who you're listening to a lot of lately. And I'm also curious as to who you might add, if you were curating, like a little.

30:00  
A fair lineup for 2025 who might you put on it in fantasy land? This is where my mind draws a blank. I don't really listen to music. Oh, okay, well, I mean, I mean, I have music going on in my head. Thank you. It would, it would be me and Sarah. It would just be me and Sarah.

30:16  
No, I mean, um, you know, my daughter educates me a lot on music. I Let's see I would see I was listening to Katie Gavin solo record. I was listening to boy genius. I was listening to,

30:32  
oh, what a See, I can't think of artists names. It's doji cat. Yeah. Her name, yes. Burke could love her.

30:44  
Who's the gal?

30:47  
Pink pony club. Oh, my God, please. Chapel, Roan. Chapel Rowan, thank you. Chapel, Rowan, yeah, she'd be there.

30:55  
Chapel, chapel Roan, sorry, sorry. Chapel, send your letters to Sarah Burke,

31:01  
Olivia Dean,

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just trying to like as I'm trying to think of a few things that my daughter sent me saying, This is really good. You gotta listen to this. Yeah, there'll be sizzle.

31:15  
Love her. God. You know a lot.

31:18  
Well, these are the few I'm just you know off the top of my head, thinking of some of the artists that my daughter's been sending me saying, You got to listen to this. So yeah,

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but what was the other part of that question? I think there was two parts of that question. It was, it was kind of one of the same, because it was like, Who are you listening to? Slash, who would you put on little fair 2025, so I think I'm gonna wrap things together. See, yeah, okay, that's our lineup, yeah. And then, of course, you know, if I am listening to music, it's my staples, it's my Fleetwood Mac, it's my Joni

31:49  
Mitchell. You know, the early 70s were still my, some of my favorite times in music. So I go back there a lot

31:58  
after your tour. Do you think you will go underneath the the waters, as it were, and pull the blankets up around your chin once you go do this tour, you've done a record now, do you see Sarah McLaughlin kind of going, that's it for me. I was out, I did this tour press thing for 10 months, and now I'm gonna go live my life again, like I gonna go back under the rock? Yeah?

32:25  
Yeah. I mean, I part of, part of the trepidation of putting on a record means doing the press junkets, being out there, having your face out there. I like my anonymity. I like having a normal life, normal,

32:42  
you know, I have this ridiculous privilege of having lots of time off where I get to skate, ski every day, or surf every day. And I, you know, I kind of wish I had found this passion earlier, but I just want to, I kind of want to be an athlete now, because my body is going to give out at a certain point, and I can only do so much for so long. And so I look at the fact that, you know, I'm in good shape. I'm almost 58 and I wonder how long before the shoe drops. So I'm like, am I gonna go bust my ass and tour for three years, or I'm gonna get second I can sit and play piano and play guitar and write songs till the counts come home and my body gives out. But I just want to so, you know, my tour is done December 1, or something like that, and skate ski season starts, like, on the 16th, so I'm, like, missing the first two weeks, and I'm gonna go,

33:32  
gonna go ski my brains out all winter and surf and and then probably tour in the late spring, early summer, a question that we normally ask, like, at the end of the show is sort of around, like,

33:46  
getting in tune with yourself and just, you know, really spending time to get to to know what you need to live a calm and well life, as we sort of touched on. And do you think those are the things that brought you this new record in your time off nature?

34:03  
Yeah, for sure. I mean, I spend a ton of time hiking. I have two beautiful dogs who require a lot of exercise, and so they get me out every single day, rain or shine, so I spend a lot of time in the woods, and I think I feel very grounded doing that

34:22  
physical exercise really helps me

34:26  
quiet the noise, to have that, to be able to put my hands on an instrument and play for the joy of playing is those two things are probably the best medicine in the world for me.

34:37  
And then having having really

34:41  
vibrant, beautiful relationships, my my friendships

34:47  
are incredibly, incredibly important to me to have people that I know I can call at any time and talk about anything and feel safe to do so i.

35:00  
Uh, having that lack of judgment and care, you know, is, is really profoundly important too. So I just, I feel really lucky that I have all these tools in my tool chest that I know I can go to, um,

35:13  
to help me. And I mean, I

35:17  
just by nature, I'm pretty optimistic and joyful,

35:22  
like I have a lot of things that bring me joy. I'm so lucky. Yeah, so freaking lumpy. Well, you know, the harder you work, the luckier you get. And like I said earlier, you've just been it's great to see someone like yourself. And this goes for your music school as well. You know that you have been so involved in for so many years, there's a lot of there's hundreds, if not 1000s of young people that have benefited from your love of music. It's something that you are very passionate about. I've been lucky enough to do the odd thing for you, to raise money and and that, in and of itself, is a full time goddamn job like you have about 19 other full time jobs, but, um, listen, I just want to congratulate you on the documentary I know Dan Levy has, you know, been a huge driving force behind that. And I just want to wish you all the luck at TIFF. I would love to waltz in there and watch that at TIFF. It would be fantastic. But what a tribute to you and the work you did and your love of music and and kind of being some far ahead of the curve in doing something that you just knew would hit, and it did, and it has afforded you such like the opportunity to walk dogs for six years at a time. And I appreciate that. Yeah, I've had a pretty charmed life, and you've had some shit. So you can say, you know, you have great you have a great character, because you have endured and gone through a lot of stuff. But anyway, enjoy the new record. I know your fans are going to flip out. Thanks for doing this podcast. I think our technical team is one of the best in the world. This went so smoothly. We spent six hours at the top of the show trying to figure out how to turn everything on, just from me, poor Sarah, who knew how to get us going. Sarah McLaughlin has been our amazing guest. Better broken. There's a new record coming out, gravity. Just go listen to gravity. Play it over and over and over again. Micro dose some mushrooms, and lay on some indoor, outdoor carpet and just listen to it. Sarah, thank you so much for joining us today. Oh, my pleasure,

37:25  
and we will be right back after these wonderful I don't even know if they're messages. I don't know if we're selling something, but we will be back.

37:41  
Welcome back, everybody.

37:43  
Lots to talk about today. We are very excited because we have a show that's going to be going on at the National Music Center in Calgary, and they had a wonderful display of moi for a long, long time. They had guitars, they had some of my clothes. They had some of my notebooks. There is five extraordinary floors of memorabilia. There's there's just, there's a whole wall dedicated to the Juneau Canadian Music Hall of Fame. There's just so much stuff there, like I stood for 20 minutes in front of Katie Lang's rest and this crazy outfit that she had. It's an amazing building, and it is a work of art, if you're going to Calgary, go to the NMC, and also our live podcast is going to be there. It's half sold. Is it not? Sarah Burke, yeah, we're just over halfway of tickets. So this show, if you've been living under a rock, is September 19 at the National Music Center. Hop skip and a jump from Calgary in Edmonton, if you can just jump in the car. But, you know, I think a road trip from Ontario, why not? Why not exactly, or jump on a plane and see some mountains. I've heard you call it on terrible. I thought that was quite clever. Well, a lot of people out west call this province on terrible. Have you heard that? Caitlin? I've heard that a ton. Exactly So, but, but here's the thing about the National Music Center. It is a place that is preserving Canadian culture from all of our provinces. They have so many cool things there. Jen, have you ever done the actual tour of the facility? Yes, I Yes, I have. I've done the tour. And I mean, just for a little snippet, there's just so much stuff in there. There's 7000 historical instruments, musical instruments, 7000 for example, there's this

39:28  
synthesizer that's quite famous, known as tonto, famously used by Stevie Wonder. So there's international stuff in there as well, like The Rolling Stones mobile studio, which has so much lore attached to it, but like the first mobile recording studio, well known in our time, in our generation, really Caitlin. Remind me, have you been to Calgary before? Never been okay. We might, we might need to give you this tour. So when I talk about like things that make you stop in your tracks.

40:00  
When it comes to music history in this country, Corey Hart's sunglasses, I would line up to see those. A drum kit that belonged to Neil from rush, Neil Peart. There's so much in there. Neil Young and, of course, from Jen also, something that's really, really important if you are a fan of Elton John, Bernie Tobin and Elton John, what those two guys wrote together is unbelievable. The piano that Bernie Tobin and Elton John wrote a lot of these. It's the most unassuming looking piano you ever saw in your life. It is there. And Elton John wanted this piano to go to a place that was very revered and really respected, the legacy like those guys could have chosen anywhere in the freaking world, and they wanted to be at the National Music Center in Calgary. So people need to know the gravity of that, the gravity, I mean, it's just, it's a beautiful, beautiful building. It It's, um, I filmed part of the Jan show in there. We filmed kind of like dream sequences, kind of stuff in there, but watching that thing go up and knowing that it's in Calgary, and it's right next to the new Calgary Public Library. So if you're going to be there, it's the most beautiful library I've ever seen in my life. There's just a shout out to the Calgary Public Library, but yeah, we're doing a show, we're doing a live podcast, and we're half sold, so come and see us at the National Music Center September the 19th, and you know, it's going to be a lot of fun. And you sort of touched on this with Sarah today. You know, she does a lot of work giving back in community with music. Well, the NMC does as well. So like, let's say you can't come to the show, but you're thinking about making a donation or something. They do the NMC music therapy initiative, so they're literally bringing healing power of music to students, and not just in BC and Alberta, but now they're bringing it to Saskatchewan and Manitoba like it's expanding rapidly. We do have a promo code as well, if you would like to check out any of the exhibitions. Yeah, studio Bell, the home of the National Music Center. They're open seven days a week, 10 to five and you can use the promo code, Jan SB, to get 20% off of your next visit. So if you come to see us, 20% Yeah, you can either go during the day before the show, or tack it on to the next day. My grad dress is still there, and right now there is a new exhibition celebrating jazz legend Oscar Peterson and the latest Canadian Music Hall of Fame inductees. So that's some 41 glass Tiger. Dan Hill, Lorena McCann, it's 325

42:25  
years of piano history. It really is a beautiful building. They have worked so hard at that place. I don't even know what to tell you. I went and saw rose cousins there. I want to say March, February, March. And the space that she worked in, it's such a an adaptable space. It's so state of the art. The seating goes up and down. It just was a stunning, stunning show. I felt really privileged to see rose there. But, yeah, they do all kinds of stuff. The architecture is really cool in there too, right? It'll blow your mind. It really will. It will absolutely boggle your mind. Guys, I was thinking about this because we're elevating our show a little bit. Do we think we need, like, a theme for what we're wearing? Like, are we coming as, like, Blues Brothers or, like, you know, do we need stage outfits this time, not just like, looking nice? I feel like we should, in the honor of Tiffany Pratt have some color going. Maybe this requires a thrift trip. I would be game for that. Why is Caitlin laughing so hard? She's terrified. I'm not saying anything. I'm not wearing a Blues Brothers outfit, but I will wear color. Oh, my God, I promise you, that was a joke. I was I have no intention of dressing like, I don't know ties are back in, man, like I would

43:36  
wear a tie. I can't rock a tie. I can't pull it off. I don't think, but they're very cool again, so, but yeah, I would if Jan picked a colorful, thrifted selection, I would be down. I will still be wearing, like, black shoes or some form of black. There is no stopping me. But I'm going to mix it up, because I respect Tiffany press design opinion too much to to shun her advice. We can ask her to come up with something for us. Yeah. So NMC, September 19, live podcast special guests are going to be announced probably, yeah, nice way to hear back from some people. And in the meantime, we always finish this show with some voice notes. So I'm wondering if we have any of those lined up. We do. Let's see what we got this week. When I on Saturday morning, I was walking the dog, and my phone just started going off. So something you said last week had people talking. Here we go. Hi Jan Caitlin and Sarah. This is my first time making a voice note, so I'm a little bit nervous. It's Daphne here from Oakville. I'm a long time fan, and I'm part of your Patreon, and I'm also loving the book bag and reading Chelsea Handler's book right now, Jan, you asked in your recent podcast for stories about some crazy antics about our pets and feeding them. I had to share about our cat marbles he used to get into our fridge. Yeah.

45:00  
He learned how to open the fridge and loved to help himself to whatever he could find. It could be anything from grabbing the bread or finding, you know, some leftover pizza bagels. He could eat anything. For the longest time, I was blaming my kids for leaving the fridge open, until I saw marbles open the fridge brazenly right in front of me and help himself to some food. We ended up having to buy a new fridge, as he had torn away most of the seal.

45:34  
He just tore away at it with his claws. We also had to install baby locks on all the cupboards because he figured out where all the food was kept. Marbles. Wow. And now, don't get me wrong, it's not like we starved this cat. He had a good tummy on him, and he was just always hungry. He was quite the character. Unfortunately, he passed away last year, but we now have two boy cats named Rocket Man and Major Tom that I got from a local rescue. I don't have to lock the cupboards anymore or the fridge, but Rocket Man will head straight for my food right in front of me, so I usually have to move him into the other room if I want to eat quietly. But I just wanted to finish with saying that we also had a dog named malfie, and he could hear the peanut butter jar open from like a mile away. So I used to try and open it as quietly as possible, but he would just hear it, you know, just that little of the

46:40  
of the jar opening, and he'd come running, and I could never say no to those sad eyes that that wanted to lick the spoon. And

46:51  
unfortunately,

46:54  
our dog, malfy, also died last year, just a month before marbles.

47:01  
And needless to say, it was a tough year. I do want to get another dog, but we're planning a move soon, and so I wanted to wait until we're settled in our new place. I always enjoy. I just wanted to say I always enjoyed your podcast, and looking forward to seeing you soon.

47:20  
In November, you're going to be here in Oakville, and I'm looking forward to seeing your mixtape tour. Cheers. Thank you. Hello, Jan. Sarah Caitlin and Sarah, my name is George Ann from Burlington, Ontario, and I'm a die hard listener of the Jan podcast. Since day one hearing Sarah was going to be on the podcast this week. I was inspired to leave a voicemail. I was a young woman in my 20s and the 90s, of course, attended Lilith fair and listened to both Jan and Sarah's music on repeat, as I still do. It was so amazing having two beautiful, strong and poetic Canadian woman role models producing music for Canada and the world. My question for Sarah and I guess Jan too, is, what are your opinions and impressions of the music business in 2025 is definitely a landscape that has more women performers. Do you think it's a better place for women artists today? And can you compare your time coming up in the business to what performers face now? Thanks to all of you for sharing your thoughts and wisdom. I think every generation faces problems. They face new things. It's always rebuilding and reforming itself. And you know, now we have streaming, and they're trying to figure out how to monetize that. And, you know, a lot of artists now wish they had come up in the 90s instead of the 2025 and of course, some of us in the 90s are going, hey, it would be so cool to step into the industry now. I mean, management is different, agents are different. The way people are touring is different. I honestly, I don't I think it's going to be always faced with challenges, no matter what area you're in, if you're in 1930s

49:03  
Tennessee, you know, playing a playing a flat top box guitar, and driving from place to place to place to play your music. Musicians have always faced a very gypsy kind of a life, a lot of movement, lot of traveling. You're a minstrel as of sort. So, yeah, honestly, it's, I don't think it's any easier now than it ever was, or any harder. And Sarah sort of touched on that when she was saying she understands she has to do the press junkets and all that stuff, but she prefers to live the anonymous life. You know, great podcast today with Sarah McLachlan. She's always she's a friend of the show. She's done our show before, and it's really great getting a glimpse into her life. I always find her very authentic and really vulnerable. And I'm excited about her new record better broken. It's out September the same day as our show, by the way, same day as our show, September 19. But yeah, go go on to Spotify. Go onto one of your favorite streamers, iTunes, whatever, and listen to gravity and tell me that.

50:00  
That's not

50:02  
another one of McLaughlin classic all time, things that people are going to be weddings, funerals, whatever they're going to be playing that song. Sarah Caitlin, always great seeing you. You're in your respective homes. I didn't even get to say that. I'm here in Iceland and I leave. I will be gone from here by the time you hear this, and I'll be in London with Nigel. So here I am in Iceland again. Yes, I am and but I'll be heading home on the 11th of September, but I'm looking forward to seeing Nigel, and he's taking me to Buckingham Palace. Ooh,

50:34  
amazing. Well, we'll have to get an update on your English adventures on the next pod. And, yeah, thanks to all of our listeners. Yeah, thank you. You guys. Really appreciate it. You want to be a Patreon member, be part of our book bag. It's seven bucks a month, but we just appreciate it. We do an extra we almost do a whole extra podcast every week, folks, we talk about that. There'll be another one this week. Thanks for listening. We appreciate you more than you ever, ever know. We'll see you next time to meet you.