A Candid Conversation with Rosie O'Donnell

0:00  
Hey everybody, drum roll. Here we go. Jann Arden Podcast. I'm here with Sarah Burke. We have an amazing, amazing guest today, and I don't even need to give her an introduction, but I'm going to give her a short one. Please welcome entertainer, actress, activist and kick ass comedian. Rosie O'Donnell, to the show. We are so happy.

0:26  
Hi. Great to see you. How are you doing? I'm doing pretty good, considering. How are you doing?

0:32  
You know what? Things are, really, really great. I want to come out of the box and say right away that, you know, I still have on my bookshelf, Rosie O'Donnell, a card that you gave to me from just the first few months of your show. I think I appeared on the Rosie O'Donnell Show when a sensitive hit the airwaves in 94 you had me on there, and you sent me just a great card. And there was, like a gift bag. It was really exciting. So thank you very much for having me on your show. It

0:57  
was like 3030, years ago. Yeah, I know. Can you believe that it's so crazy to me to think, you know, and when people come over to me, I can tell how old they are, but by what it is that they remember me for, you know, some little kids, little kids, you know, kids in their 20s, come over and say, I loved you. And now and then, oh, that's me, yeah, these little, tiny movies that I you know, and then other people like, you know, go, Oh, I've never heard of you. And it's amazing. 30 years is a long time to have been on TV that long ago. You know what I'm saying?

1:32  
Yeah, our birthdays are a couple of days apart. So I turned 63 in March, as did you on the 21st I'm on the 27th but it's so funny with someone that you really have only met very briefly, like decades ago. It's amazing how much I think of you, and I see you all the time because of social media. But whenever I'm coming up to my birthday week, I'm like, oh my god, Rosie and I are, like, going to be 63 this year. You're always included in that narrative with me. So just know you've been you've been traveling along with me all these years. Well,

2:01  
you know, who else is on my birthday? Is Matthew Broderick. He's exactly our age. He was born in 62 good year, and he has the same birthday as me. And every time, when I was a young entertainer, and I wasn't on Entertainment Tonight, and they would do the birthdays, I'd go one day, they'll say my birthday with Matthew Broderick, you know.

2:23  
And here you are Mariah Carey's on the 27th of March. Wow, how about that? Yeah, my friend gyroid fairly is a comedian in Ireland, and he was at your stand up show the other night that you went in and just tried out some new stuff, and he said it was fucking hilarious. He said, You were amazing. And he said, Please tell her. And he's quite a well known comic there. But are you trying out new stuff? I mean, is it something that you can just step back into stand up comedy? I mean, it's and never mind that Stand Up Comedy in another country where culturally, things may be slightly different and the jokes might not land the way they would in America.

3:03  
Well, you know, it's funny because I was working on an HBO special in America before I left. And so when I got here, I thought, you know, maybe I'll try to do that and see if it would work. But so many things had happened in our country and in the world that, you know, I felt like I needed to throw out that one. It was sort of not relevant anymore, and start a new one. So I started the show with my mother's death, and then I take it all the way up to here and now, current day. You know, I didn't want people to say, Oh, more of the same. Rosie knows how to do stand up. We know she's been doing it for 40 years, right? I wanted this to be more of a play about my life, the one woman show, and we're doing it for the Edinburgh Fringe Festival. And hopefully then somebody will say, I see the potential in that, and we can work together to get it up on the west end or somewhere in a theater in Ireland, and that's what I just feel like is better than doing what I have always done. You know, stand up is my first love, and it's the way i i entered show business and and I have found it's kind of easy for me, but I don't know how much I've grown as a comedian because I didn't stick with it. You know, I think that my stand up is very similar to my stand up when I was a kid. So I wanted to make sure that this show is presenting me as I am at almost 64 years old. Yeah,

4:33  
it goes by really fast. I want to talk to you about moving to Ireland, all of us, millions of people following along with your social media, and I have to say, your rants, your charming diatribes, and your and they're not even meanderings. They're always on point, and they're always helpful to me, and I watch them all the time, like, if I'm sitting and I have 45 minutes, I'll go through. Two, like three or four of your daily salutations. And I really think you've brought comfort to a lot of people. I don't know if that was your intention, but the things you talk about, the candor, the your you know you're you're always so honest, and you're always so earnest. And I just wondered if you could speak to those a little bit where they started. I know Tiktok is kind of a ride in and of itself, but your brand of what you do, the content that you started and continue to do, is helpful.

5:35  
Thank you, Jan, That's so nice of you to say, you know, I mean, I feel a responsibility that I have any kind of fame that would make people listen to me. And I feel that if you have it, access to a microphone, in this day and age with what's going on politically in America, you have an obligation to use that, you know, bully pulpit, so to speak. Do you do you have to use it to explain to people what you're feeling, why and what you did, you know, I mean, I was not one of those people who said, Oh, if he gets elected again, I'm moving, because I never imagined having to move, and I never imagined that I would move. I am not a good vacationer, even I don't like to go to a country. You're a homebody. I'm a homebody, and I love to stay in the United States where I can speak the language and I know my way around. And, you know, I have very, you know, very worldly friends who say, we're going to come. You want to come? I'm like, no, no, thank you. You know, if I want to go somewhere, I'll go somewhere in the United States, with, usually some of my kids, or the Jersey Shore, or, you know, Miami, for a long time, was a stomping ground for me as well. But, you know, when I started doing Tiktok, I wanted to present myself as authentically as I could with who I am at this point in my life, you know, and, and that was my goal, is to only tell the truth and to be as honest as I could. And that's what I would I have done. Now, some people you know, are annoyed. Some people are annoyed lately that, you know, oh, you left, you abandoned us, and now you think you can still talk about. I'm like, I'm still an American citizen, and I always will be, and it is my country, and I love my country, and I'm devastated by what's happened to it, and I'm trying to do all I can to bring attention to that, knowing that sometimes social media is like screaming into the toilet. You know, who's who's going to hear you, right? You're like, I'm really sick of this. I can't believe this is happening. How did he get to be president, you know? So you have to make sure it's not monotonous or cruel, that you're as informed as you can be. Now, everyone makes and hopeful. Well, sometimes I'm not as hopeful as I wish I could be, you know, I try to keep myself buoyed. I try to handle my, you know, mental health and my anxiety as much as I can. I'm on top of it. I take my meds every day, you know, and people think that's a good burn when they write, are you taking your meds? I'm like, yes every morning. Thank you so much for caring, you know, like I don't, I don't feel ashamed of it. I don't feel embarrassed of it. I don't feel any any negative effects of the fact that that's what I need in order to

8:34  
science is amazing, exactly, and God only knows where we'd be. I mean, you're in Dublin, island right now, Sarah is in Toronto. I'm in a place called Spring bank, Alberta, and we're having a conversation. So it's, to me, it's a really amazing thing to see the kind of feats that we're making tech, you know, the technical side of things blow my mind. But really, you really are very positive. And you talk about things that are everyday, things, I think, the journey with your daughter, which is, you know, very well known, and you've talked about it a lot. I have an older brother who is so addicted to drugs and alcohol. He isn't anymore, but he spent 28 years in jail for a murder. Caveat to that that he says he didn't commit but, you know, needless to say, his rap sheet was about 88 miles long leading up to that final charge, he's in a halfway house now. So I can relate to you on that front too, of dealing being a public person and dealing with the press when you have whether it's a daughter or a son or a sibling or a parent that has personal issues. I mean, Rosie, I've been asked things like, right out of the gate, like, how did your brother kill that girl? And I'm like, What the fuck are we talking about right now? We're gonna talk about my book. Are we gonna how are we gonna proceed here?

9:48  
And it's so it's so violating, too. It's so violating. It really is everyone's privacy. And you know, people know about it. It's in the tabloids. It's a public story. I. I don't want to pretend it's not happening and act as though everything's fine. You know, she, too is in a halfway house now. She has seven months sobriety. She got overnights with her son back, which she had lost. And you know, this is the longest time since she's been 17 that she's been sober. So I have, you know, The Audacity of Hope. You know, to quote Barack, you have to, you know, and, and, and it's very difficult to put yourself in that position again, because when it falls apart, it's so crushing. But you know, this is part of the journey of addiction, right? Is nobody really goes in and gets a number from the bakery, and they call the number and it's done. It's a lifelong struggle, and it's plaguing so many Americans, so many people all over the world. And you know, our family is suffering from it as well. And I try to tell that journey as honestly as I can. Well, it helps a lot of people well, while respecting as much of Chelsea's life as as possible. Yeah, you know, though,

11:09  
it helps an incredible amount of people. And that's what I'm saying, is that your ability to be vulnerable, to be, you know, transparent, and talk about things that are really difficult, and I love how you deal with the press. You don't take any shit from anybody. I if I don't say hello from my road manager, Chris Brunton, he'll absolutely kill me. He has been your ardent fan and follower. For you know, he's 40 years old now, and he just said, she has never not been in my life. She's never not been part of my mental health. And Chris wanted me to tell you that. Well, that's very, very sweet. Well, he'll say, I mean, and this is, this is Rosie Appreciation Day here at the Jan Arden podcast. I don't know if you know knew that, and we're gonna get T shirts made, but, but you know, to have this guy, you know my he's, he's a gay guy. I sort of watched him come out of the come out of the woods with it when he was in his 20s. But he has always, always spoken to you. And I said to him, I actually met her, you know, on her show all those years ago. And when I told him you were coming on the show, he said, Well, finally I'll have an opportunity to actually, because he never bugs me about you know, people that I know or that I've met her, that I have access to. And he said, please do tell her how much she's helped me with my mental health and just my life

12:22  
well, that means everything to me, Jan, to tell you the truth, because, you know, I suffer with depression tremendously, like it's it's been a very, very tough road for me, and you know, it runs in my family and and I've watched, you know, parents and siblings struggle with it as well. And you know, when Columbine happened in 1999 and I was so overwhelmed that children in a school would be shooting each other in America, I kind of had a breakdown. I kind of like I couldn't sleep. I would wake up in the middle of the night, and think somebody was in my house with a gun trying to get my kid and, you know, I couldn't work. I was not eating, and so I went to this therapist, and I kind of downloaded through hysterics, you know, all of what was going on for me. And she said, Well, I'm going to put you on medicine and you're gonna call me every week and we're gonna talk about how it feels and how you're doing. And I said, Okay, well, how long do I have to take it? And she said, for the rest of your life. And part of me felt, Oh, my God, I not the rest of my life. Well, one time since 1999 I went off it with the help of my doctor. I tried it down, and I did everything that you're supposed to do when you go off, and within four or five days, I was in bed crying, unable to get up, and felt as though there was no reason to try living. And I said to my therapist, if I ever say to you again that I want to go off it, remind me of this moment that I will never, ever go off it, because I know that I need it. It's like oil in the engine of my brain. And if I don't have it, my brain seizes, you know, so I'm very proud that I was able to talk about that and in a way that moves people and makes people feel less alone,

14:32  
absolutely. Well, yeah, I know Sarah has questions. I don't want to, I don't want to hog Rosie the entire time I listen back to these interviews, and I'm just like, Jesus Christ, you didn't fucking let anybody ask anybody. But go

14:46  
ahead, on behalf of the Jan Arden podcast listeners, because we put out a question, just asking, you know, if anyone had any questions. So while we're on this topic, and we normally, at the end of our episodes, sort of ask our guests about how they take care of themselves, self care, and that kind of thing. But Kathy. He says, What are your suggestions for when you are feeling defeated, when you watch what's happening around you outside of you know, you've talked about the meds, and of course, for certain people, meds are going to be helpful, but what are those things that you do for yourself to ground you and bring you back to like a safe space?

15:16  
What I tell everyone, and what I really believe in, is you have to shower every day. You have to put on clean clothes, amen, brush your teeth, even if it feels like an Olympic event, and you have to get out in the sun and move your body. And I don't care if it's the middle of winter. In the middle of winter, I used to wrap myself in down blankets and parkas and lay on my back porch with the sun getting on my face. The sun is nature's Prozac, and it's very, very valuable, I think, to our our mental health. So whenever anyone says to me, I'm feeling down, I'm feeling I'm like, okay, the top three, right. Shower, brush your teeth, put on clean clothes, get out in the sun and move your body, yeah. And those are the the essential things that I do. And you know, sometimes I'll find myself like starting to feel bad and and, you know it, it's like a frog in a pot the you don't notice it's getting hotter. You don't notice it's getting hotter. And then when when I finally get to the point where I go, Oh my god, I remember. I remember. And I kick in, and I start a real commitment to taking myself to the day, to letting each day fulfill me in some way. And I also do it a lot of art. And I consume art. I consume, you know, Joni Mitchell is who I go to whenever, oh, our Canadian we love, she's the best. And whenever I feel any kind of desperation and and concern about what's happening in our world, it's Joni Mitchell that that I go to, and she provides me with salvation.

17:07  
Robin here actually asked, you know about meeting your idol, Barbara in 1999 and how that experience was. But you know these people that we tend to idolize, Joni Mitchell, maybe being, you know, one of those North Stars in your world, like, Who else do you do you admire and look up to? And like, Jan has so many of these people in her life. Maybe name drop a few of them, Jan,

17:28  
meeting Rosie. I mean, those are that's a big thing for me. Like I said, I've she's we've shared birthdays, and I've long admired you so much. I mean, meeting Bette Midler and Rosie would agree to this. I mean, bet is just exactly who she is. I've met her a few times through mutual friends. And you know, when you have they're saying, Jan Arden, well, Jan Arden, come over here and sing me something. And I'm just like, Jesus, right? Whose life is that? But I say exactly, and I've heard you tell so many stories about childhood. You know, dreams kind of unfolding in front of your very eyes. And I've spoken about Olivia Newton John on this show many, many times. We actually became friends, you know, for, you know, several years 1010, years before she had passed away, she always returned my emails if someone had told 14 year old me who was crushing on Olivia Newton John that, you know, and I went so far as I was able to do a duet with her called angel in the wings, if anyone wants to look it up. And it was, she was one of the nicest people. So, yeah, I guess those were my streisands. I think I'd faint if I fucking met Barbra Streisand. I don't know whether I'd I don't know what I would do. And I remember that too.

18:38  
It was hard to keep my composure. I could tell you that. And you know what, Jen, I can't even watch it when people send me the clip, no, because it's too emotional for me. It almost felt like my mother was walking out there, you know? Because when, when we went to Ireland after she died, my father took us there, when we came back after that summer, all of her stuff was gone from the house, except her Streisand records. And so that's how I remain connected to my mother through Barbra Streisand. And when I was a little girl, like in second or third grade, and my mother was sad, which she sometimes was, I would do impressions, you know, of Barbra Streisand and Funny Girl of Marty, The Martian Central Park. And you know, is that that's the height of nonchalance with the accent and everything, yeah, and my mother would laugh, you know. So meeting her was trippy. And the fact that, you know, we sometimes communicate via emails or social media still is a lot for me, you know, I I revere her, and the fact that she was so tender with my truth about how much she means to me, I will never, ever forget that kindness, you know, but Bette Midler, I mean, I used to go see all of her shows with. Whenever she was performing in every city I could you know, Julie Andrews, Mary Tyler Moore, yes. Valerie Harper rose, these are my people. These are my people. And I was so inspired by them. I was so blown away by their talent. And you know that to be among them, even though I don't consider myself among them. You know,

20:23  
see, that's so funny. You know, you have been famous for the better part of your life. You have been a known person, right? And it amazes me how kind of nonchalant you are about fame and that it doesn't really hold much value to you. You don't, you don't seem to have that as a card that you hand out on a regular basis. You

20:47  
both have this in common, by the way, both of you,

20:50  
yeah, I never really believed in it, aside from to inspire other people, right? I never really believed in the game of fame. I never believed in in the, you know, your own press junkets. Like I thought when I was starting that every night would be a party, and it would be Barbara and bet and Julie Andrews and me and all at her house, and Liza, and, you know, we'd all be having cocktails and singing, and Mark shaman would be there on the piano. And good choice, yeah, this would be like my typical weekend. I thought of my adult life, you know. And I come to find out there's not that much Hollywood in Hollywood. The Hollywood in my mind, is not the Hollywood in real life. And the best part of show business that I've ever experienced is in a Broadway cast, because you're there for months with these same people. You're living a strange schedule where you only have Mondays off. Your life becomes very small but very intimately connected to these people, and then together, you sing in unison and dance on a stage, and I'm never as happy as I am doing a Broadway show, and it's where Hollywood lived up to the dream for me,

22:11  
yeah, I love to hear that, just that very tactile experience of live theater and the kind of joy it brings you.

22:25  
How did you fare during COVID? What was that experience like for you? I know people hate talking about it, but I'm always interested to hear people's sort of inside scoop.

22:33  
No, I like to talk about it because I thought it was one of the most devastating things that we humans have ever been through, and I was not very good. First of all, Trump had been in for three years with Ford hit, or four years almost, and that was a very hard time for me. You know, since 2006 he's had this issue with me. Once I told the truth about who was and who he is, and he can get crazy, and he's had a 20 year vendetta where he can't help himself, but, you know, use me as a punching bag and ridicule me and and tease me and call me ugly and unappealing and and, you know, a degenerate, and all the things that He does, yeah. And it was hard. It was difficult for me to believe that that man could be President of the United States. It was difficult for me to believe that people would just turn a blind eye to everything that he had done, and now it's times a million. Because, you know, all the felonies, all the convictions, all the 26 women charged him with sexual abuse or assault. You know, he is a dangerous, dangerous man, and he was taught how to lie on television by Mark Burnett and the people who produced the apprentice who sold him as a successful businessman, which he never, ever was, yeah, and he's a con man through and through. And if you grew up in New York like I did, you were aware of this your whole life. So he never fooled the people of New York. The people of New York had his number from the beginning. And I'm one of the people of New York, so I never had him on my show. You know, he always called and wanted to come on the show, and I would never have him, because I had no interest in him, and I had no respect for who he was as a person. And I remember there was a charity fundraiser we were doing during sweeps, where celebrities would come in and sweep the floor, and then the company for this. I remember that swifter would give us $1,000 to go give to charity? And so we let him do that, because I didn't have to speak to him. It was just like the doorbell would ring and somebody would come out and be sweeping, and you never spoke to them. And that was that. It was just a quick cameo, but that was the only time I've never spoken. Spoken to him in person. In my life, I have no desire to speak to him in person. I just see him for who he is, and I'm stunned that so many in the country are unable or unwilling to do that. Can

25:13  
I get your take on and there's been various theories kind of thrown at us on the show over the years of why he was elected in the first place, the second time, obviously with Biden, the four year gap. And you know, here he comes swinging the bat again. What do you think shifted in the American Heart? Obviously, predominantly young, disenfranchised men, men that felt marginalized, whatever the case may be. But what's your take on what was America thinking?

25:43  
Well, America was lied to by Fox News and by the Celebrity Apprentice. And the apprentice, for all those years, for over a decade, he was sold as something that he never was or never could be, and people believed it because they saw it on TV, just like they believe Fox News, even though they have been fined hundreds of millions of dollars before lying to the American public. But people seem to forget that. And you know, America is a land of gross excess, and he is the king of gross excess, and in some ways, that was the aspirations of of the American dream was, you know, not only fame and fortune, but you know, gross excess, right? And I think that people have been fooled by him and lied to by him, and he touches on the worst parts of humanity and allows people to indulge in their innately racist and misogynistic thoughts. And that's the reason that I feel he has

26:52  
hit a nerve, just a lot of misinformation, really

26:56  
well, pure lies, not just misinformation, pure lies about who he is and what his record is, and what his family is, and what they represent and what they do. And you know what what he's doing now is, is very overwhelming, because although he said project 2025, he didn't know anything about he's done every single thing that was in that horrible manifesto, and I read it, and I was very shocked to see so many Americans did not, because if you read project 2025 you would know why I moved, because it said exactly this was going to be happening, and I knew I could stay to watch it.

27:38  
Yeah, you're not shy at all about discussing the lack of American infrastructure and climate, you know, oversight, and what role do you think artists should play, like such as yourself, in political advocacy, like speaking to, you know, those, those types of huge issues that seem to be so split. Like, obviously, he's doesn't give a shit about the climate or climate change or the climate crisis, or people, or people. Well, yeah, that's the basis.

28:07  
He would cut all of the health insurance and Medicaid from all these people. And people are going to die. Millions of people are going to die. And I got in some trouble online recently because of the horrible floods in Texas. And I said, you know, this is the result and the consequence of his ridiculously absurd policies that really affect the safety nets that society needs in order to be functional and healthy. And people said, How dare you make it political? Well, it is political. Absolutely. So I feel it's my responsibility to say something. I've always been a person who was invested in politics and in humanity, who believes in empathy, who believes in in you know, the basic tenets of of every religion, which is Be kind to each other.

29:00  
You're a force. Rosie O'Donnell, with all of that, you are an absolute force, and your messaging is always consistent, and that's what I love about what you do and who you are. Thank you so much. You You've never relented. Well, you've never relented, and I think you, you do need to be applauded. And you know, I your perseverance like you're you're very, you're really, really resilient and strong. And so when I see someone like you standing up, it gives me I'm like, fuck. I want to do that. I want to be more like Jack

29:33  
gets into trouble like you often, I would say, so like, you know, when you both use your voices and you don't care about the blowback. You're using your voice for a reason that matters,

29:42  
and I believe fully in what I'm saying and what I'm yes doing. I this is not a fly by night. New whim. You know, when I spoke out a bit about Gaza and faced a lot of blowback in the United States, I was stunned. That my friends were upset because I said, Have you not been paying attention for 40 years? I've been against war, against genocide, against apartheid, against all of these horrifically inhumane systems that are set up and that we don't need any part of and you know, what Israel has done is beyond anyone's ability to ingest. You can't turn a blind eye to it. You can. And it started for me in Vietnam when I was a little girl, and I would watch it on the news, and it would devastate me, and I would cry, and my father would tell me to go to my room and then tell me that I could not watch TV anymore because it was too upsetting for me. Well, it is upsetting, and war is upsetting. And the way that war was on their TV channels during dinner in the 70s, and you know, it was until Walter Cronkite said, you know, this war must end. And you know, we had newsmen like that who didn't kowtow to the corporate interests. And the news was, you know, really respected and not corporately owned. And now there is no news. And without a fourth estate, democracy can't survive, and so part of the reason that we're in the place that we're at right now is the lack of the American media doing their job.

31:30  
The media in Ireland has been really interesting with you, and they're very interested in you lots of, you know, talk shows and and you know, media reaching out to you to get your opinions, and they want them in earnest, like they really are very interested in what you have to say. And I think they're very it's it's refreshing for them to see an American citizen who actually has got the balls to stand up and kind of express an opinion, because, as we know, the entire UK and and Europe are adamantly against anything Trump. They can't stand the guy, and they make no secret about that. But you've been really welcomed. I mean, yes, you're Irish, but it's been really fun to see you welcome with open arms and meeting all these people and doing fun talk shows and being able to state your case without facing any criticism.

32:20  
And you know, it's been really wonderful. I had no idea what to expect. I didn't know how I would be received. I didn't know how much of the negative stuff that you know, Trump spews about me was in the public Zeitgeist. I didn't understand really, but all I felt from the moment I got on the plane to come here until this day, is is love and support and understanding. And this is one of the nicest countries, and it's very small. It's the size of South Carolina. So, you know, you have to think that too, like it's it's better for me to be in a smaller place, in a place where community is real and vibrant and matters. And when I first got here and I met this guy, Tom Murphy, who was a friend of a friend, and he was just very helpful. And that's how all the shows found me, they went and said, somebody must know this, Tom Murphy, and that's how they got my number through, you know, the word of mouth, who is this guy, and how can we get his number to help us get Rosie's? And then I went and did the Late, Late Show, and I saw that, yeah, it was amazing. You know, you never get that kind of long form interview on a talk show where he really was digging deep and asking me, No, you were the whole damn show, yeah. And I was not, not trying to do a gotcha or get ratings, trying to really understand someone. And it's a different way that they approach celebrity. There's not an overt celebrity culture in Ireland. There really isn't, and in America, it's to the extreme. You know, celebrity culture has, I think, collapsed at this point. And I think it that's a death that needed to happen, you know, because the amount of of excess, the amount of debauchery is is is stunning, you know, is stunning to me. And I love that fame is not the goal of every Irish citizen.

34:29  
There just seems to be such a warmth and an appreciation for who you are and what you're doing. There's such a list of questions I wanted to ask you, but one of them, for sure, was, you know, being a parent of a non binary teenager, and how you navigate their identity and their privacy, and how you advocate, you know, in public for them today, I think that's really an important topic. It certainly is here, where I live in Alberta, and you've been really, really outspoken and very supportive about, you know, people with trans kids and non binary. Kids and neurodivergent kids, and I just wanted to hear your take on on how you're how you're navigating all that

35:07  
well. You know, I was very surprised when my little 10 year old daughter came in and put all her stuffed animals on my bed and said, Mom, I have to tell you something, all my stuffed animals are non binary. And I said, really? And they said, Yes. And then they said, and so am I? And I said, Can you explain exactly what that means? And they said, I'm not a girl and I'm not a boy. And I said, Okay, well, thank you for telling that to me. And then they said, I would like to change my name. And I was like, Oh, really, you want to change it from Dakota to what? And they said clay, because clay is an art form, and I am an artist, and I don't feel like a Dakota. I feel like clay. And that was all it took. You know, when your kid tells you who they are, believe them. Now, I had some friends and family who did not go along with the way that I was approaching it. You know, my best friend, Jackie, whose mother really raised me, my next door neighbor, you know, she refers to as the child formerly known as Dakota. And then Dakota said, or Clay said, Well, I'm going to change her name too. I'm going to call her the old woman formerly known as grandma,

36:24  
and I'm like that is she knows how to punch back, right?

36:27  
Knows how to punch back and love clay. I think that everyone's journey is is complicated and difficult and trying to find out who you are and where you fit in the world, especially as a non neurotypical person, is as a challenge, and it's my job to guide this little soul as best I can through the rough waters and and on to like, you know, a sea where they can sail themselves and and I will Always protect them and stick up for them and and give them the respect that they deserve for explaining exactly who they are. And I am very, very blown away at the viciousness with which we treat our trans brothers and sisters and you know, JK Rowling, who I was a huge fan of, I can't even believe what she's saying. I can't even believe that this is the woman who taught us about Dementors, and that this woman who created that lore for us could have turned into that woman that she is today, this mean spirited, evil, unforgiving, uncaring, non empathetic person. And if that can happen to JK Rowling, you got to wonder who else it could happen to. And I, you know, will stand against that and opposed to that. And you know, same with the president, I will stand in opposition to everything that he's done and everything that he is, because that's the truth of who I am.

38:10  
Well, I think that's a great place to leave this, and we're glad that you are exactly who you are, and for your voice and for your resilience, for your sense of fucking humor, for your ability to keep laughing in the face of some really tough stuff. And I think just sharing your family ups and downs your own trials and tribulations is extremely inspiring, and you continue to do that, and you make us laugh in between all the hard stuff. Well, thank

38:36  
you so and that's so it's so nice to get to talk to you, and I would love to be able to get to hang out with you, like, just a couple nights. You know what? I mean, just to get

38:45  
to it's gonna happen. It's gonna absolutely happen. There's something wrong with the world. If two broads from 1962 can't, you know, hang out and shoot the shit and, you know, and try and tear down the patriarchy. I'm up for that.

39:01  
Me too. I have to ask, what was your impression of Jan in the 90s? Well,

39:05  
I was, she was one of the women that I looked up to. And, you know, in in my soul, I would have loved to be a singer and a songwriter, but I can't really sing like, you know. I mean, I did two records, Christmas records, but they use Pro Tools, and I don't sound like that, do it live. And I, you know, I'm not trying to fool anyone. I'm saying like, I love to sing. I love to sing. I would love to be able to write, you know, beautiful lyrics and get out in front of a crowd and, you know, like, you remind me of all the ones that I loved back when we were all starting out, you know, and Tracy Chapman and Mary Chapin Carpenter, and, you know, of course, the queen of it all, Joni Mitchell. And, you know, short, COVID. And there's so many women look up to. And

39:57  
everybody you're naming was my, my go to. You. You

40:00  
both forgot Sinead O'Connor, I loved you.

40:04  
Took a chance. I hadn't done any big American shows at all, and your bookers, your people, and I'm sure it came from you at some point, just decided to have my guitar player and I go on there. But that was the beginning of a lot of you open. You kicked a lot of doors open for me. One insensitive hit. So I will always be grateful.

40:21  
Well, it's my pleasure, truly my pleasure, and and it's been wonderful to get to be in your graduating class of showbiz. You know that's what I feel me you. Matthew Broderick, ladies and gentlemen, well,

40:35  
listen, you look after yourself. If we're gonna we're gonna find some time, but I'm following along with you, and we're cheering you on here at the show, and all our listeners will be so thrilled to see you make pop up here, and maybe we'll do Rosie O'Donnell 2.0 you know, six months from now, we can revisit

40:52  
whatever. Want me to do it. You just reach out. I will do it.

40:55  
Thank you so much for getting back to us. We really appreciate it. Enjoy the rest of your evening. It's a little later there in Dublin, and we'll talk to you very soon. Rosie O'Donnell has been our guest on the Jan Arden podcast. We're going to do some voice notes to end things off, and we got a few closing remarks, but we will forever be grateful to you. So thanks a lot, Rosie. Thank

41:15  
you very much, both of you. Sarah,

41:25  
welcome back to the Jan Arden podcast. Oh, what a show we have had for you today, and there are still more. Sarah Burke, you probably wonder where Caitlin green is and she is, is she in the Eastern Townships? Again? Where the hell is that woman

41:36  
I feel like I don't actually know. She's at a cottage. That's the only thing I know for sure. She's at a cottage, and she was going to join us today, but she said reception is spotty at best, so we've said, enjoy your vacation. And like, yeah, all good. No, absolutely. And that's kind of what's nice about there being three of us. You know, I was not really around for a few weeks. Caitlyn took over, and now vice versa. So it's pretty oh

41:56  
my god, absolutely. But listen, like I said, we still have more. We like to end the episode with voice notes. And I just also want to tell people that we don't know what's on the voice notes. So when we're listening to them, they could be telling us to go F our own hats. We never know. And sometimes, I remember we had a message of people. There was one woman that didn't like us having a Patreon, didn't

42:18  
you? Explained a little bit about, you know, some of

42:22  
the I'm just saying we don't know. Like, we don't censor, yeah, we don't like, just pick good ones and play those. We have no fucking idea.

42:29  
Here we go. Hi Jan, Sarah and Caitlin, Karen and Halifax here. Loved the last book bag zoom with Eliza. Such a privilege to be a part of the great conversation with her and her writing processes and her candor for death on the island, hoping perhaps our book bank in House resident author Jan would grace us with one of her books in the future and let us in on her writing processes. Sort of an only Jan bookbag writer's retreat, the best $7 I spend on myself every month.

43:03  
Thank you very much for saying that. You know what the next book that I pick? I think it's my turn next, isn't it?

43:08  
Intermezzo, Caitlin. It might be mine, but you can have it. You're the you're the No,

43:13  
no, no, you take it because I did. What did I do?

43:16  
Death on the island was yours. Last one.

43:18  
It was mine. But you know what we will get to that. I will throw one of my books in there, for sure. Thank you

43:23  
and for asking, because we know you're working on a new book, maybe you'll give the only Jans an early chance at reading for some feedback.

43:30  
Oh, my God, absolutely, absolutely, that could be super cool. Okay,

43:35  
here's another one.

43:36  
This is for Caitlin and Sarah. I am curious on from your side of when Jan made the announcement that she was no longer single, after hearing for quite some years that she was very content and happy being by herself or single, sorry or and living in the trees, I'm just curious as To have surprised and possibly even shocked on this fantastic announcement, Jan, I am very happy for you. Yeah, that's she's very smitten with somebody after all this time.

44:10  
So Sarah, how do you how do you feel about me not being single anymore? Sarah, do tell

44:15  
so this is where your Patreon membership comes in, because we've talked a lot about this already on Patreon between the three of us. So if you want the tea, I would suggest maybe you join us. You know, one of our other tiers. You don't have to do the book bag tier if you don't want to. But I will reiterate what I kind of said on Patreon. It's, I've never been so happy for Jan. You know, her and I have bonded, I think, over the last four years, on being happy alone, but that's also, I think, when you're ready for a relationship, right?

44:44  
You were just at the you were at the tail end of, yeah, of your relationship, yeah,

44:48  
yeah. So when I was in Italy, I got this, like, voice note from Jan, and she knew I was on vacation, and she was, like, definitely leaving me alone to do my thing. But I thought it was like, someone was sick or like, like, she's like, a. Lee, I just need you to hear this from me. I wanted you to hear it from me before it gets anywhere. And it's the tone of the beginning of it scared me. I'm like, is the podcast done? And then all of a sudden, she's like, I'm in a relationship. I'm dating. It's like, oh my god, this is amazing. But seeing Jan also on Patreon this week, the love of her life may have made a cameo. So that's another reason to get in on our Patreon. Yeah, but yeah, seeing these two together, nothing makes me happier. And, like, even when they joined, well, I say they, Jan was getting ready to record with me, so she was, like, in the frame for a few minutes at the beginning. And they were, they had a little Okay, see you in a bit. Bye. Like, so fucking cute, I could puke. So, yeah, yeah, I'm so happy for you. We are all so happy, and also for the tea on Patreon this week, Jan walks us through the rumor of her getting engaged. So another reason or Patreon, here's another one,

45:57  
Jan, I am so happy for you and thrilled to hear of your news of your new relationship. And I just wanted to share that your concert changed my life. And I just wanted to share which I probably have because I'm not afraid of leaving voice notes, I might be blocked because I probably leave too many perhaps there may be, but let's be honest, flying back from your concert in Toronto at the Massey Hall was a life changer for me. Thank you. I've been married since 2003 and I came back with the power to ask my husband for a separation, so I am on my way to being a better person. Thank you, Jan,

46:51  
thank you for leaving the message. Did we get a name? You know what? It sometimes music does prompt you to make life changing decisions. And I'm glad, I'm glad that whatever I said or whatever I did at the one of the Toronto shows was enough to get this young woman to get out of her relationship. You know, it's not, it's not an easy listen. I'm, I am not one to talk about needing to get out of relationships, and literally finding myself three or four years later, going, what am I doing? Yeah, why am I still in this

47:28  
I went to therapy to break up. That's why I went to therapy. And if you went to therapy to break up, to learn how to break up, yeah,

47:35  
to learn how to break up, maybe people need to, I mean, you do need to learn how to I need. That's what I could have used

47:42  
our sponsor better help, by the way, that we've got a code in the show notes for you, if that's something that you also struggle with, which really, at the end of the day, it's people pleasing, right? It's not putting yourself first. It's not being you have to be honest with yourself about how you're feeling. And sometimes people choose staying because it's easier. Yeah, it is hard to break up for sure. Oh,

48:02  
god, yeah. Anyway, yeah, I hope I never have to deal with that ever again

48:06  
in my life. Yeah, she didn't leave a name, probably for obvious reason, but we're proud of you. And last one,

48:12  
really proud of you. Okay, here we go. Hi

48:14  
Jan, Sarah and Caitlin. This is Leslie from Leslieville in Toronto. Hopefully you're playing this on the only Jan's feed and not on the main feed, because I have a comment about Jan's blankety blank. I am so excited to hear about the blanket blank and how happy you sound, Jan. Just for context, I'm about not quite two years younger than you, Jan, and I've also been single since 2015 it's been an absolute shit show, for lack of a better word on the apps, and I've kind of given up, but I haven't given up on finding my person. So your story has really given me some inspiration and some hope. So I thank you so much for that, and so glad that you are happy. I also want to say to Sarah, because you haven't given us an update in a little while, I wasn't looking for anything potential blankety blank or the one that you were pursuing things with, and you talked about like, what should I do if he reaches out again after a period of like, kind of radio silence. And my answer to that is, you need to move on. You have to have boundaries, because if you let this guy back in after basically ghosting you for a couple of weeks or a couple of months, you're letting him know that it's okay for him to do that. And as hard as it is, you know, I've had people like that in my life who kind of pop back in and it's like, yeah, sorry, dude. No. Anyway, I just wanted to give you that feedback, and hopefully you find your blankety blank too. Anyway, thanks a lot. I really appreciate everything you all do. Bye.

49:49  
Oh, thanks. Leslie, yeah, I definitely have moved on from that already, so we're all good there. And as I mentioned on Patreon this week, I have a date tomorrow, so she's back at. Out there, baby.

50:01  
I've never done an app in my life or anything like that. I mean, that's gonna happen. That's a bit of a lie. Raya, for like two minutes, Danny kind talked me into signing up for that. I never I was off of it so fast that I don't even know what to tell you. I looked at I literally hit the fucking delete app, and I was out of there it I almost, I was very frightened of it. And this was like five years ago. I was only five years into my self imposed moratorium on meeting human beings. You know, yeah, I just like, No, I'm, I'm just gonna read books and, you know, figure myself out. Figuring myself out.

50:40  
I feel like we talked a bit about that with Danny. We should recall her episode next week.

50:44  
Yes, we should. I highly recommend taking whatever time it is that you need to take to sort your shit out, like if you're just gonna jump from the fire into the frying pan, which I absolutely did. I did all the wrong things, and then I just did the right thing, which was

51:06  
you followed your heart when it was feeling good.

51:08  
That's why just just stopping, just, stop, stop, stop, take a look at yourself and do things that are important. I mean, I didn't do therapy or things like that. Everyone's got their own road to take. And like Sarah was saying, with with better help, I think if I'd known something like that was available to me, where I could have done something online and not gotten into my car and driven and and met a human being and sat in an office with a plastic plant in the corner and all these scary ideas that you have with therapy. Yeah, and I'm not just talking about that, because better help is one of our sponsors. I'm just saying that it's such a great concept, like I'm jealous that I didn't think about it. You know that you can go online and be in the privacy of your own home and be in your PJs and have a cup of tea in your hand and and not have to go anywhere. Some people don't even want to leave their houses anyway, we're rambling now,

52:02  
I know it's good, like the best thing you can do for yourself, especially if you are looking to get into another relationship, is be good with yourself and expect nothing. Expect nothing but yourself.

52:14  
Well, then when you do get into a relationship, you can be cherry on top. Yeah, you, can be steadfast, yes and not fucking flaky, but anyway, don't lose heart. For all of you folks out there, don't lose heart. I mean, it's when you least expect it. I know that sounds corny, but that is the fucking truth. It's not when you're actively seeking anything or it's just something that's organically going to happen in your life. And I do believe that. I believe that now more than obviously, I believe it more than ever. I think sometimes when you lower your shoulders a bit and drop your guard and and just Just live your life and but be your the best version of yourself. Things start things start changing. Anyhow, that's our show for today. Very inspirational. End it is. It's been great, and it's what a great guest. Rosie. Thank you so much for joining us today, and we will see you guys next week. God only knows what's around the corner. And Caitlin will be back. Caitlin will be back. We will hear all about her wherever she is, wherever she is, we don't even know where she is. I should text her and find out, but she really doesn't have cell service wherever she is, so it's in the boonies. In the boonies. Well, thanks for listening to the Jen Arden podcast. Hit subscribe helps you find the podcast. Every week, it just shows up in your mailbox. You don't even have to go looking for it. Patreon, once again, we'd love to get more members going there. Come join us. $5 is less than a box of tampons and so much tea and so much tea, so much tea. Okay, we'll see you next time. Thanks for listening to Lee. Do you?

Transcribed by https://otter.ai