Remembering Dolly Parton & Bestselling Author Carley Fortune

0:07  
Hello, everybody. Welcome to the jann Arden Podcast. I am jann Arden. Obviously, it's Friday, and we are a little bit late in being able to to speak to this. But Dolly Parton's death was announced on the 25th of August, just a few days ago, and the whole world is reeling. Apparently, she passed away quite quickly from cancer. They have not, at this point, said what kind of cancer it is, but that it was a very short battle. She had one of her family members come on and make a brief and beautiful statement about her life.

0:38  
Hey everyone, my name is Brian Seaver, son of Dolly Parton, and I am representing the Parton and Owens family today, announcing the passing of my aunt Dolly Rebecca Parton Dean, sister, sis, aunt granny to one generation and Gigi to the next. This video announcement is something Dolly asked of me years ago before I fully absorbed it as a future reality. As her head of security for more than two decades, a role my father Larry held before me, I have imagined the heaviness of this moment, but haven't truly felt it until now. It is an honor, an honor that is mixed with absolute pride and great sadness. But sadness lies with us, not with Dolly. Dolly has lived in the light, and is in the arms of Jesus, surely met by Carl, her parents, and countless others who have watched her and longed for her to meet them in the heavens. I first went on the road with Dolly as a kid, getting a taste of the road life in the early 1980s. Dolly opened doors not just for me, but for her entire family to reach the potential we didn't even know was possible. Dolly also opened doors for generations of singers, songwriters, musicians, and dreamers from every walk of life and across every continent. By her example, we believed that anything was possible. She never saw a door she couldn't open, and the doors she opened made and changed history. My family and I have shared a lifetime of beautiful memories with Dolly, but so have you. She has always been on your television, your record player, your CD, and on your phone playlist, becoming an extended part of your family, whether you liked it or not. Our family and the team she has entrusted with her legacy will work diligently to ensure her spirit will live with us forever. Dolly was a farmer, just like her daddy. He farmed the soil. She farmed songs and happiness. Dolly called me and said she wants to rest in a beautiful bed of plush cotton because after a life wearing heavy rhinestones, she finally deserves to be comfortable and have some rest. Rest in peace, Aunt Dolly, Aunt Granny, Gigi. May God bless Dolly Parton, and may God bless you all. She will always love you.

2:46  
What a life it was! It's it's really hitting hard globally. This is a woman who was a bona fide billionaire. She didn't speak to that much. She was one of the you know one of several women in the world that are indeed billionaires when you include Dollywood, her catalog of 3000 plus songs, the movies that she did, her live touring career. The woman knew how to make money, and she was very, very generous with it. Sometimes quietly, sometimes loudly, investing in things like COVID vaccines. I think close to 300 million books are were given out and are still being mailed out to children as we speak once a month. Her work with flood victims, fire victims, and the Tennessee fire. I mean, I I could sit here. We could spend one hour talking about her philanthropic, humanitarian efforts to make the world better. She was feisty. She was irreverent. She herself called herself, you know, trashy. It takes a lot of money to look, you know, to look this cheap.

3:49  
Well, hey there, it's Dolly, and I'm here to give you an update on a few things going on in my life. First, it's concerning my health, and I have some good news, and a little bad news, but the good news is I'm responding really well to meds and treatments, and I'm improving every day. Now the bad news is it's going to take me a little while before I'm up to stage performance level because some of the meds and treatments make me a little bit swimmy-headed, as my grandma used to say, and of course I can't be dizzy carrying around banjos, guitars, and such on five-inch heels, and you know that I'm going to be wearing them. Not to mention all those heavy rhinestone outfits, the big hair, my big Personality, Lord, those that would make anybody swim-headed. But this thing of me is like an old classic car that, once restored, can be better than ever. But when they raised the hood on this old antique, they really. That I need to rebuild my engine, and that my transmission is slipping, my oil pan is leaking, and my muffler's busted, and my shocks and pistons need to be replaced, and for sure my spark plugs need to be changed, because you know, as well as I know that I can't lose my spark. I know I'm still crazy, but they didn't mention nothing about my mental health. You've got to remember that as long as there are plastic surgeons in this world, I'm not getting any older. But anyway, of course, plastic surgeons can make you look as good as they can on the outside, but it's serious business when you're talking about internal medicine. So I have great doctors, and I'm doing really well, and they assure me that everything I have is treatable. So I'm going with that, and I just want you to know, I thank you for standing by me, and that I will always love you.

6:05  
I've never been on the planet without Dolly Parton. None of us really have. We are doing something really unusual because right now we're in the middle of a Zoom meeting on our Patreon book bag. So we've got a few, I'm sure, Dolly fans. Caitlin, I'll I'll hear from you first, and just yeah, your feelings on the passing of truly one of the world's greatest philanthropists.

6:24  
It was crazy because so the so you know time of recording the news broke of Dolly's passing yesterday. So yesterday I'm at work. I'm currently working at SiriusXM Radio, and we're doing a live session, a special session with Canadian singer Amanda Marshall, who you know endlessly talented, wonderful. So we've completed the recording of her songs and are now going into an interview. And I get a tap on the shoulder from our social producer, and then the second that it wraps, Amanda Marshall just goes, "Oh my god! and like yells, and then immediately she asks to go back into the studio, and she did a really quick off-the-cuff, amazing performance of Dolly Parton's Nine to Five, and so she posted it on her social. You can go check it out. Like she just really, I think, touched so many people because, to your point, Jan, about her being so philanthropic and and really, like I I think at time of her passing, she was estimated to be worth about 450 million, but Jan, you're right. She could be a billionaire, and she wasn't a billionaire. She's certainly worth over a billion dollars in Dollywood and all the other things. But she gave it all away. And if anyone has ever been to Nashville, you know, although we know her as this bigger, larger than life music icon, she played a very important role in the school system, there

7:42  
in community in Nashville, and that's again like we're talking about these books that are still continuing to be shipped out to kids. I, you know, I have friends who talk about receiving those books for their kids in Nashville. So it's really special. The legacy that she leaves behind is not just music, and yeah, Jan, have you ever covered a Dolly song?

8:02  
No, never covered a Dolly song. I've I've seen her twice live.

8:06  
Okay,

8:06  
and

8:06  
it's

8:07  
it's been in the last 15 years, and the first time I saw her was was in Nashville, Tennessee, and she played I think eight or nine instruments that night.

8:17  
Crazy,

8:18  
and everything was live. Her band was kick ass. I mean, you can imagine the the players that she had around her. But you know what? A life well lived. She was a good person. That's what she wanted to remember as. She didn't give a shit about being remembered as, you know, a rich person or even a a famous person. She said, "I just want to be remembered as a good person. Anyway, let's take a couple of comments from people, and then we will, of course, get to our brilliant guest today, Carley Fortune, and of course, another very talented young woman. And God only knows what she's going to be doing when she's 80. But let's see if we can grab a couple of comments.

8:56  
Yeah. So just to read a few comments from our chat here, and then we're actually going to let some of our Only Jans say their own piece about Dolly. Laura says Dolly was a lovely human who everyone loved. Paula, when I heard the news, I literally lost my breath. I felt like I lost a friend. Dolly's such an icon. Loved the music. She was such a great person. Kathy, Dolly's story was so inspiring. I wonder if her story could be replicated today, considering how much money it takes to be this successful in music. Karen, such a philanthropic woman, and Terry Amanda Marshall's tribute was just perfect. So let's go over to

9:30  
Dana

9:30  
to start. I

9:31  
bought this coat yesterday, coat of many colors, and it was before I heard she passed away. So I feel she'll always be with me. Oh

9:40  
yes,

9:41  
that's it's

9:42  
lovely. It's weird how these things happen that just seem to have no correlation. But yeah, that that's a memory that you will always hold.

9:49  
Jen, over to you.

9:51  
So I'm joining the movement. You've heard of May the Fourth for May the Force be with us for Star Wars.

9:57  
Yeah,

9:58  
there's a movement for September. September 25, nine to five, being official Dolly Parton Day. Oh, I

10:05  
love that! That's great. September the 25th, nine to five. The

10:10  
Empire State Building lit up its sparkly pink lights at 925 last night in her honor. Ah, which is cute.

10:18  
Pamela, over to you.

10:19  
Dolly Parton. Of course, we all grew up with her, and what an honor that was. And I loved her humility for every walk of life, no judgment for every walk of life. And she's the kind of person that you did not have to personally know to feel like when she passed that the entire world lost a friend, and that's how it felt. And it's definitely going to be a void. But how lucky were we to be here at the same time as her?

10:45  
Oh, I agree, Pam.

10:46  
So well put, Jackie.

10:48  
So I lived at Nashville for three years, from 99 to 2002, and you know, country music became a part of our life living there. I was never a big country music fan. My husband was, but we lived around the corner from Dolly's compound. We'll call it. It's where her husband lived, and we drive by it every day. And I keep thinking, now that she's gone, I know it's still there. I just wonder what they'll do with that huge compound. You know, she's just she's given so much. We lived there when they were just opening up the Hall of Fame or whatever country Hall of Fame, and the first thing we went through was Dolly, and I was just like, wow! And I read all of her philanthropy, and just it just blew my mind. I had no idea she gave so much back, but yeah, it'll be interesting to see. We'll be back there in the fall for a wedding, so we'll see what happens.

11:48  
I really think comparatively, I think Dolly Parton will will have the the mystique and the the charisma and the longevity of Elvis Presley. I think she truly is a one of the few, if not the only person on the planet that kind of can hold that global audience. I mean, I don't know how many hundreds of albums she did. Like it was a lot, and you know, this is a 50-plus year career. I have no doubt that you know what you were saying about what are they going to do with the compound? Wouldn't surprise me a bit if it went into lockdown, went into some kind of a tourist attraction where people could walk through and see where her and Carl spent their lives. I mean, it's it's all going to unfold, but I think she would have had a lot of control. I think she would have known with this illness where she was headed, and I think she was the type of woman and the type of business person that would have secured things and done whatever she could do to have that steady income, to have money coming in in perpetuity that would help all her charities keep them running, keep the wheels going. Dolly Parton may not be on this physical plane with us anymore, but I think her business acumen and her branding will outlive all of us,

13:04  
for sure. For sure. Okay, Cindy and then Wendy. Okay.

13:09  
Yes, it was very sad news, and I love the clips of Dolly when she was asked specifically about. I think it was LGBTQ. She said, "You know, we're all God's children, and whether you believe in God or some other being or whatever, I think that was just a really great way to encapsulate that. I also, like jann was saying, was so impressed with her business acumen. She was Elvis wanted to buy the rights to one of her songs, and she refused. And Whitney Houston for "I Will Always Love You. She had wanted Dolly to never sing that song again. She wanted her version to be the you know main one out there, and Dolly refused. So she was very exceptional at business. But the other thing, I never heard a negative thing about Dolly Parton, and I think in this world today, I think that's a great tribute.

14:06  
Thank you so much, Cindy. Wendy, over to you, and Jules. You're our last. Okay, we got two more minutes here.

14:11  
You know, regarding her literacy program and what she has done for millions and millions of of young people, with the fact that Americans really struggle with basic reading literacy, and federal data has found recently that 54% of U.S. adults read below the grade six level, that makes Dolly's decision to put books into children's hands at the very beginning even more meaningful because education is the key to any society, and and it's so brilliant that she spent her millions of dollars in this program and not buying yachts and sending spaceships to space. Well put. True to

14:56  
that.

14:57  
True to that. Jules, our last word for. The segment here on the jann Arden podcast. The

15:03  
world has lost an icon, and we are all better for having Dolly Parton in this world. And how lucky are we? And how amazing that with all of her gifts, she was just this humble, wonderful artist, and really made a difference.

15:20  
What a perfect ending! That is succinct and poignant, and I think you voice for million, hundreds of millions of people. So thank you for that. I think we all realized how lucky we were to have her with us on the planet. My God, she was funny. She was self-deprecating. She was she was saucy and naughty. She was just the right amount of naughty, and and as smart as a whip, you know. I'll end with a quote. You know, she said she didn't mind being called a dumb blonde. She knew very well that she wasn't dumb, and she also knew that she wasn't blonde. So it's just a classic Dolly. Anyway, that's been our little itty bitty tribute, our tiny little shard of appreciation and love for Dolly Parton. Safe travels, Dolly, and steady on. Thanks for staying with us. Coming up next is our amazing conversation with the very successful, wonderful, funny, talented Canadian writer Carley Fortune. Stay with us. the one and only Carley Fortune. In addition to being one of the most beloved and successful voices in Canadian fiction, she is also a master of career reinvention, and we love that about you, Carley. She spent 15 years building an incredible career in Canadian media, working at places like Toronto Life, The Globe and Mail, and Chatelaine, and eventually launching Refinery 29 Canada as its executive editor. Then, in 2021, she walked away from journalism to write fiction full time. Five years later, Carley is a number one New York Times best-selling author whose books have sold more than 5 million 5 million copies around the world, and those books have been translated into 35 languages. It is no small feat. Her debut novel Every Summer After is now the Prime Video Series Every Year After, and her beloved P.E.I. set novel This Summer Will Be Different is currently being made into a 10-episode Netflix series. It also happens to be our most recent pick right here on the jann Arden podcast book bag, and as if that weren't enough, her fifth novel, Our Perfect Storm, became another instant number one New York Times bestseller this year. That's all the time we have. Our guest has been Carley Fortune. Welcome, Carley. Thanks for doing the pod. I am so delighted to be

18:00  
here with you, Jann.

18:01  
I am going to pass you over to Caitlin because we have some fun questions for anyone living under a rock somewhere who might not know Carley. We thought this is a great opportunity to do a little quick Q and A to kind of get a sense of where you're coming from these days. Caitlin, take it away.

18:18  
So it's very rapid fire, and they're very light and fluffy, so don't worry about giving this too much thought. It's kind of like a fast friend segment. We're calling it so: lake or ocean, lake, dock or beach,

18:32  
dock,

18:33  
sunrise or sunset,

18:35  
sunrise,

18:36  
cottage or hotel,

18:38  
cottage. Hard though, I love a hotel. Okay,

18:41  
Tofino or PEI.

18:44  
Nope. You can't choose. You're like I refuse. She's not doing it.

18:51  
Oysters or lobster roll?

18:53  
Oysters.

18:54  
Summer fling or friends to lovers?

18:57  
Friends to lovers.

18:58  
And best friends, brother? Good idea, or absolutely not.

19:02  
Terrible, but brilliant idea.

19:05  
Sex scenes harder to write, or harder to know that your family members may read.

19:09  
Harder to write.

19:12  
A book you wish you could read again for the first time.

19:15  
Anne of Green Gables,

19:16  
fictional character that you had a crush on as a teenager.

19:21  
Ooh. Ooh,

19:24  
I don't know. I that's really hard. We can come back to that. You can think about it, and we will revisit this at the end of the show. How's that? If it makes you

19:34  
feel better, Jan's answer was Captain Kirk, and we've talked about it many times on this show. Also, the song that immediately feels like summer to you.

19:45  
Ooh, summer girl by Heim.

19:49  
Okay, and lastly, your perfect summer day in three words:

19:54  
swimming, lake, my kids, children.

19:58  
Cute, yeah, children. Love it. Okay, and that's all for fast friends. Now we're sufficiently so much fun.

20:03  
Yeah, we are sufficiently warmed up. That's so great. I love the fact that it's harder to write a sex scene than it is to have a great aunt, a grandmother, a child, a husband to read said scenes. Maybe we should just unpack that a little bit. Sure. Why is it hard writing a sex scene? Is it difficult? Because let me tell you, they're good, Carley. They're they're freaking good.

20:29  
Thank you. I think it's the one piece of my writing that if I'm really not in the mood to write, I will just leave it and come back to it later. Usually, I'll I'll plow through kind of anything, but I find them. I think the part that is tricky is you know I'm writing my sixth book now, so you you want them you want the sex scenes to feel like any other novel, and my novels are all you know Somerset love stories, and you want want it to feel fresh every time, so you have to like put your thinking cap on about that. And I think that the other challenge is the choreography, because it really it really does come down to choreography. But also, you don't want it to read like a game of Twister, like right hand there, and like it's so, and then I just I find I think the trickiest part is revising them. Like I'll write a sex scene, and but then when I have to go back and edit it, I feel truly embarrassed by myself. I've also been very supported, well supported by my family in in my writing, and you know I don't I don't consider what I write to be like erotic literature in any way, shape, or form. Like the sex the sex scenes are part of the relationships, and they really you know should speak to the growing relationship between these characters. And my parents have read my books, and my dad has defended my. He lives in a small town. He's defended my sex scenes, and I just I don't. Yeah, that part is not difficult. I'm not embarrassed.

22:17  
I want Caitlin to start this off because we definitely want to address the the scale of what has happened to your life, so Caitlin, over to you.

22:25  
Yeah, well, I'm. I just think as someone who I remember following you on social when you were not a fiction writer. That's not at least how I knew you. And so I remember when you know Refinery 29 launched because I'm a longtime Toronto media girl myself, and so when this switch happened and this like meteoric rise occurred, I felt like weirdly like I remember when she I just I remember when she was the editor of Refinery 29. Like it was like it was a really cool and very rare, you know, number one career transition. But like of somebody who worked in media in Toronto to now be this crazy successful New York Times best-selling author, these like juggernaut novels and fans and just everything. Did was there ever like a time where you just thought to yourself, "I'm so glad I friggin' left media" Like, was there like a moment, like a a book specifically a book or a conversation with your publisher, or you know, an accolade that happened, and you were like, "Thank God, I slammed the phone down and said I need to write a fiction book. I feel like that all the time, honestly. And part of it is just that I love what I am doing so so much, and the other part is is just media. I was really at the end of my career in media, in in that I felt like I was I was done, and it was very scary to me because I had worked so hard to get to where I was in journalism, and then to kind of reach that point and feel like I was in the wrong place was really difficult.

24:00  
And so to discover how much I loved fiction, and then to have had that become a viable career has been so amazing to me. And I watch what's happening in media, and it's just so heartbreaking to me. And I really do miss working with a team of of people because writing is is very solitary, and I really miss working with with groups of of people. But yeah, I don't at all want to go back not for a second.

24:34  
Yeah,

24:34  
you worked in like women's media, sort of, like when you were at Refinery 29, and I feel like women's media in general-you know, things that are kind of created for women, very often by women, can get treated like a little bit of like a joke, and that goes to like pop music, to reality TV, fashion, and then romance novels. I feel like romance novels are kind of I don't know. They feel like they're derided or undercut in some ways by like you know certain. Breeds of of fiction writers, but romance novels and fans have really given me a lot of hope for kind of loudly loving this genre so much. So from being in you know meetings, obviously as you would, and now you're executive producing series based on your novels. Do you think that the tide is kind of turning in terms of taking them seriously because the fandom is so there and willing to spend money. I

25:24  
think Hollywood has certain certainly caught up to how powerful the these fans are, these readers are, and you know you're you're seeing so many adaptations now get greenlit for of romance novels, publishing has known for ever because romance is the number one. It's the biggest money making genre in in publishing, and so Hollywood's kind of really caught. I think got the memo. Whether that changes,

26:00  
I think there will probably always be people who think less than of these novels of the readers, but yeah, it's it's like there's it's there's definitely a moment right now of of I think like interest in these stories for sure. One thing that I love that you address fairly often is the whole idea of second chances. I don't care where you are in your life, and maybe that's why romance is such a popular genre because a lot of times you are dealing with people that it's the one that got away. It's like I should have done that, or I missed opportunity. And I think a lot of us reflect about our own lives like that. We tend to look back a lot these days because those days seemed a lot easier than what's ahead of us. So, can you talk about that a little bit and how if you've had second chances in your life that have been, you know, really instrumental to why you write about that kind of a theme,

27:09  
that's a great question. I mean, my husband and I have been together for so long. We've been together. It's five years, but

27:17  
it feels like 42.

27:19  
It's been more than 20 years, crazy. Yes, so I, you know, romantically, I my story is not a second chance love story. I like I think my of my second chance in terms of career. I feel like I'm living a second chance. I also I think one of the reasons people are so drawn to these stories, and some, and especially a reader who maybe hasn't read romance before, and then finds them. I get a lot of readers who said, "I didn't think I I would like these books, but I love I love the story. I think we're really really craving and lacking connection between people, and these stories are about how to connect with one another and the challenges with connecting. What I love about second chances is is that I think empathy is a is a superpower, and it's something that's really lacking. But in order to you know forgive and move on. You really need to have a sense of empathy, and so I think you know that's I think that's why we're so drawn to love stories, whether that's in in music or or books, in TV now. It's it's this this human connection that we're really I think still many of us are lacking post pandemic. I think the world is this very feels like a very fraught place for many reasons. But I I think that's that deep down that's that's just what we all want. We want to feel seen and appreciated and loved.

29:00  
Yeah, I think a lot of people lose sight of as quickly as things go bad, and we talk about that a lot on this show. That's how quickly they can turn good. That's how quickly something good happening in your life, and and like like you said, when it comes to romance and people finding relationships and finding the love of their life and things like that. I think your books also provide such a relief and a sense of hope that this could happen to me. And I think that's a really important message too. And that you are dealing with small places like Prince Edward Island. It's not. It's not at the heart of Los Angeles or New York City at a at a modern art museum. It is simple lives, simple stories. People that aren't necessarily draped in academia. They're people that are working jobs and driving old cars, and I think that's been really appealing as part of how you present the people in your stories. They're not. Extraordinary in in any certain terms, like they're not they're people that you could meet like on a bus next door, and I think

30:10  
that's

30:11  
a really great thing that you've done.

30:13  
Thank you. Yeah, I really want you to feel when you're reading the books, you're you're being transported to these very beautiful places, but I want you to feel that you're you're kind of snooping on real people, like you really feel like they're people that you would know, and you're you're just like right there watching them go through that stuff, and that's really important for me to to have those emotions feel grounded.

30:44  
Tell me about your writing process. You're you're working on book six, as you said. But like, for instance, your your recent your most recent Our Perfect Storm number one instant bestseller, which is pretty fucking great, Carley. Like, congratulations on that. When you see those numbers, you must just be like, "What is happening to my life? And we're going to talk about that because I want to talk about your family's reactions, but maybe talk about our perfect storm a little bit and what the inspiration was for that. Yeah. So all of my books have started with the setting. I can't figure out the story until I know the place. And yeah, and I lived on Vancouver Island for a year after I graduated from university, and I visited Tofino twice when

31:30  
I lived on Vancouver Island, and I fell in love with it. Anybody who as you do, as you do, it's just it's just an extraordinary place, and you really feel like you're on the edge of the world. These, you know, epic rainforests and the beach, and it's so the

31:47  
trees.

31:48  
Trees are just it. They will make

31:52  
you cry if you've not been to Tofino. Those fricking 1000 year old trees will make you feel really bizarre. Yeah, like you're being watched anyway. I'm sorry to cut you off.

32:03  
Yes, no, there is something that's very mythical about being there, and I I went whale watching for the first time several years ago when my husband and I went back when I was researching, and that was like that felt this similar. Like I felt like I was by dinosaurs. It just there's something very special about Tofino, and so I had been I had it in my head as a setting for a long time, but I just I didn't have the right story because I felt like it needed to be a love story that was as dramatic as the place. So I knew Tofino at some point, and then you know at the same time, I had been watching my kids play in the backyard and saw they chased a rabbit under the hedge, and I just saw these two children meeting this way, where where one chases a rabbit and sees a pair of blue eyes on the other side of the of the fence, and these two young children meeting, and then for years I was like, who are these children? And thinking about these children, and slowly the kids became George and Frankie, who were best friends. And over time, I had different kind of ways of how that relationship would, what that would be like. And then, and then I thought, oh, I wonder if I could take them to Tofino. Like, what would be a great like a honeymoon in Tofino. That feels like a really good way to spend time with these characters. So it kind of evolved evolved from the setting and these characters that I had in my head, and and then it was about just like amping up the drama because I knew I wanted it to be a very dramatic Book and always surprises me where the book goes. You know, there's a kind of there's a mother daughter storyline. There's a storyline about about whales, about the fires in in throughout Canada in 2023, and it just kind of I don't plot anything out, but it you know eventually kind of pulls together.

34:03  
We had lunch together once. We did,

34:07  
yes.

34:07  
And I think about it a lot because you gave me some great advice when we were talking about writing, and you were just like, just write it, just finish it. Don't edit yourself because I was talking to you about doing these micro edits and combing over things and wanting to make all these corrections and you're like Jan, just get the story down, just write the story. I'm just about finished that book that we talked about. Was it two and a half, three years ago?

34:36  
It was coming up on years ago, I think.

34:39  
Two years ago. Well, I'm I'm just finishing it. My publisher finally just said, "We a lot has happened to me this year. Speaking of romance novels, but I congratulations. Yes, thank you so much. I wasn't fishing, by the way. I wasn't fishing, but thank you. And but yeah, I just I'm finally like in the home stretch. But I'm I'm not editing myself too badly. But anyway, I appreciate that, and I and I'm wondering, and I'm going to hand it over to Caitlin about that self editing process and about the desire to fix things as you go along, or think, oh, my editor wouldn't like this, or they're going to take this part out. How sensitive are you, and how precious are you about you know your editor coming in and sort of surreptitiously saying we're going to lose this 12,000 words, we don't need it, it doesn't make any sense to the story. Is it a an easy process for you going into book six of being edited? Like how how is that how is that evolving?

35:41  
It's. I am really fortunate in that I have had the same editors since my first book, and my my kind of primary editor. Her name is Amanda Bergeron, and she's out of Berkeley in the U.S. She and I work very, very closely on developing the idea and kind of big, big picture thinking. She's very good at character and helping me figure out the characters before I start writing now. And I and then I have another editor. Her name is Deborah Sun Dela Cruz, and she's out of Penguin Canada. And Deborah and Amanda work together beautifully, and so I really trust the two of them. And also because I worked as an editor for 16 years, I appreciate being edited. I know how important it is. I try not to think too much about the readers when I'm writing my first draft, and then, and then we really go in. Amanda and I get into the weeds of it, and you know we've we've come. We're we're we're still trying different processes for what like is the what's the best way to work together, and we're still refining that. So, she used to give me like a seven-page editing letter, and then we would have a call, and then I'd go go and do my second draft. And now we've had we were like, let's just try to talk it out more before we. She even does an editing letter. Like we we were we just spent a lot more time kind of chatting and talking, and I was in Tofino on my book tour, and Amanda was Amanda came with me, and Deborah came with me, and so you know we had walks on the beach to talk about the characters. It's just it's just become this great friendship, and so it feels I feel very lucky to have that relationship, and I know it's not the case for all for all writers, for sure. Caitlin, over to you. I know we've got a we've got a million things to ask you, so bear with me. I know.

37:50  
I want to talk about this summer. Will be different again. This is our recent book bag pick, and now I'm just so excited that it's being turned into a series for Netflix.

38:00  
Yeah,

38:00  
it's it's very and also like so. My father is from Prince Edward Island, whereabouts in Charlottetown.

38:07  
Okay,

38:08  
and so and my grandparents were there forever. I spent my summers going to PEI. Like that was my summer vacation standing every single year, and I've married a maritime member. He's from Nova Scotia, and his brother married an island girl, and they live in North Rustico, and so now our our son gets to go back and have this like PEI summer experience. It's like it's really amazing. I just want to know, so because you fell in love with I guess Anne of Green Gables, as every young girl does, and was that kind of your initial introduction into PEI, which is now the setting for this book and future Netflix? No, I

38:41  
mean I. I I loved the book. I really, really loved the CBC 1980 films with and with an E, not the one that came out later. That's like I was too me a puritan. Yes, I like to me. There's no other M but Megan follows. There's no other. There's no other Gilbert but Jonathan Crombie. Like I can't. I won't. I can't do anything. But I love them. But I traveled to Prince Edward Island for the first time when I was in my early 20s, and I went with my best friend, and she had family on the island, so she had been previously, and we we made a pact not to eat anything except for seafood the whole time we were there, and we rented. We had this rental PT Cruiser, and we drove all around the island. And

39:36  
amazing!

39:36  
It was and and that trip, you know, one thing that really stuck with me-it was our-we drove from the airport right into Charlottetown for our first meal, ordered a dozen oysters from the Shucker at a bar, and and he said, "Where are you in from? And I said, "Trono, and he said, "I'm sorry. Welcome home. And I thought that was so charming, and. It really it stuck with me for so many years, and that when I was when I was pitching my third book to my editor and and discussing it with my agent too, she is involved in those those calls. I had all these other ideas that I'd really belabored, and and we were like nothing was like quite right. And I said, "Okay, I have this other one, other idea, but I don't want to say it to you because I just know you're gonna make me write it because I don't. There's no like I don't have anything there. And she's like, "Well, you have to tell me now. And I said, "It's just best friends, girls' trip, Prince Edward Island, and she was like, "Yes, I love it, and here's why I love it. And she, my editor, grew up in Maine, so also grew up loving Anne of Green Gables, and yeah, so that's the basis of of that book.

40:48  
And now they have literary benches for you, like they have like the benches in PEI for you, which is amazing. I mean, everyone again, like the island loves when this type of stuff happens. So when the story's set there, I know my island relatives. This was a big deal, and I think that this just must be so exciting for you that this all stemmed from like your initial girls' trip.

41:09  
Yes, yeah, it was really special. And Meredith and I went back to Prince Edward Island together a few weeks ago to go to set and and also see that these benches that they had installed in honor of the book, and and one of them, the book is as much a romance as it is a love story between friends and under Lucy and Bridget, and so one of the benches is dedicated to Lucy and Bridget, but also to Carley and Meredith, and it was just so special to be back there with Meredith, and they did this little ceremony for us, and we were tears. You

41:44  
know, you've made it when you have a bench, and you're not dead. You know what I'm saying?

41:51  
When you get to sit on your own bench,

41:52  
yeah, because normally it's like in memoriam. It's like Art and his dog loved to sit here before he got hit by the train. So I love that you're that you're alive and enjoying a bench. I want to ask you kind of an uncomfortable question. So you you have this profound success, and and I want to remind our listeners that it takes a while for the checks to start coming in. This isn't an instant thing that just sort of happens overnight, but eventually, as the months trickle by, you start getting some pretty substantial amounts of money. How do you think that's affected your relationship with your husband? I think sometimes when a woman becomes more successful in in in terms that are literally fiduciary. I'm not talking about character or who a person is. We're all successful in different ways. But how have you guys navigated that? Has it ever been a problem? Has it been a joyous experience? Has it been a complicated experience? Has it been parts of it that you're like? I wish this never fucking happened. Experience, and I wish I, I'm, I think our listeners are curious. I'm certainly curious as someone who's been in the arts and has had some success.

43:14  
Yeah, yeah, it's a good question. I think, I think what has been incredible, and there have been so there have been it's been a lot of change really quickly, and we have two small kids, and Marco and I met in journalism school, but he was a teacher, and when Marco took paternity leave when I had my second child, so I could write my second book. He took that whole year off, and when he went back to teaching, and the kids were at daycare and in school, and I was trying to write "The Summer Will Be Different, my third novel. They were sick all the time. By I don't know month six of writing that novel, I was having breakdowns because I I could not parent and write. I was on a book deadline, and Marco decided to take a sabbatical from work, and he has since retired completely from from teaching. He does pick up and drop off of the boys. He makes their lunches. He makes their dinners. He does the laundry, and I think you know we wouldn't be able to do. I wouldn't be able to work the way that I do. Of

44:29  
course,

44:30  
that support. I mean, whether that came from Marco or whether that came from hired support, we would. We need that, and I think you know that was a an adjustment for him. It was a choice. He wasn't like forced to do it by any means. It's what he wanted to do. But I think when you go from being out of the house every day and having a career to being at home every day and then kind of recalibrating, okay, what do what am I doing with my own time? What I'm you know. Who am I now? There's that adjustment, but that's been-it's actually been so wonder. It's been so wonderful, and I think in terms of money, I didn't grow up with money, and I my parents worked so so so hard, and there was a lot of financial struggle. I had so much student debt when I graduated from university, just 10s and 10s of 1000s of dollars of debt. And I feel so lucky that I don't have that. I've had so much financial anxiety throughout the course of my life, and and making the jump from journalism to full time writing was very terrifying for that reason, but I I just feel so so fortunate that I bought a cottage. I'm we can save for our boys' education. I just like very very grateful.

46:00  
I I think it it does bring up a lot of of things like any any kind of radical changes that happen and I and I have to applaud you guys like you said you've been together 20 years through some incredible you know it required a lot of sacrifices on both your parts yeah you know and and I think you do like as a society we have to reevaluate how partnerships work and gender roles. Like I love that we're talking about this, these specific gender roles that you know your husband has been, your partner has been profoundly like brave about, like with his friendships, like you know when he's go goes out for a drink with his his friends and his his his colleagues his family. I think it sets such an amazing tone for people watching your success and watching how you guys make it work. You should be really proud of that.

46:57  
Thank you. I I am. I'm really proud of him. Our cottage is near where my parents live. My parents live in Berry's Bay, which is the setting of two of my novels. Our cottage is nearby, and my my mom and dad took the boys for the night, and and I I cooked dinner last night for Marco. And I I like I really like to cook, but I don't cook very much anymore. I don't have that opportunity, and I just it just felt just hanging out with Marco, being able to cook dinner, and having a partner who has been so there for this crazy these last few crazy

47:30  
years-it's incredible. There've been so many stages of our relationship; like we've had so many relationships within our relationship, and I feel very fortunate. I have a toddler, and I'm like I know that it's a lot of sacrifice. Obviously, when you're working, when both people are working and your parents, and so there would be a lot of time that you would miss with your kids that would be challenging because of the immense career success you've had. But I also it does strike me as you're talking what an amazing thing it is to have two boys, especially who are five and nine, if I'm correct, see that like mom is this super successful best-selling author, and dad has successfully transitioned into you know different. Yeah, like it's that. I think that's pretty cool. Like you must sit there and be like, okay, the kids are with the grandparents. I'm making dinner for you. I feel like we're doing okay. I think we've made this work.

48:19  
Yeah, I do. I do feel like that. There are, of course, like bad days, and we fight. But I think, I think, I think we're in a really good place. Knock on wood. Who knows?

48:31  
Your boys understand that you're like you're like. Do they ever kind of feel like, oh yeah, mom's kind of a big deal? I

48:40  
know Finn is five, so he doesn't really have any concept. He did. There was this big event in Berry's Bay in my hometown recently. It was a library fundraiser, but it was also it was a celebration of me that the town put on, and Finn came to that. So, but I don't think he really kind of knew what was going on. Max though is older, and I and he he he gets it more, and and sometimes I think that's good, and sometimes I don't think that's good. I think that's I don't know. Try to keep his feet on the ground, but he had a lot of trouble with me touring last year on book tour and missing things, and I, I brought him. I had him come to my event in Toronto last year because I he wanted me to cancel going on on book tour, and I I was trying to explain to him why I couldn't cancel one of the events, and so I had him come to the event in Toronto, which is you know 500 people, and they are are asking questions, and I think he he really got kind of got a sense of it from from that, and he was much better. I was away so much this year between promoting our perfect storm and then the publicity. For the the TV show every year after too much I was away too much but he he was really good he was a real trooper about it.

50:07  
Do you have any kind of rituals or habits that you just have to enact in order to sit down at that desk and and create these stories? Okay,

50:20  
not really. I drink coffee, but I one of the things I pride myself is on being able to write, kind of no matter what, and

50:32  
sickness and health and all those kinds of things. Like, will you drag yourself if you're like hacking your head off? Or

50:39  
I try not to. I have done that in the past, but I I am trying to be a bit easier on myself. But I, you know, I just I just need quiet, focused time, and which has been harder and harder to get. But if I, you know, if ideally, if I had an ideal day, I would, you know, wake up, make coffee, start writing right away. Take a break to go. Like I would be by the water, and I'd go for a walk, and and then sit back down and just have like quiet, uninterrupted time by myself in nature. And then at like 4o'clock, my family would come.

51:20  
I love that fun question. Out of all your books, not including the one you're working on now, because that is a work in progress, which one do you think you would love to have stepped into to be like a B character inside of these books, like living the life?

51:38  
Oh, so fun! Yeah, just okay. So I feel like kind of because I grew up on the lake in Berry's Bay, I kind of lived a life like every summer after. So maybe I would say this summer will be different. Like all those summers going back to Prince Edward Island, and and all the all the family dinners and seafood, and yeah, I think maybe that one.

52:05  
That seems to be like a reoccurring theme. You do create that whole idea of like eating and imbibing and and and having those social connections. Do you think there's a little part of Carley Fortune inside at least one of your characters in each one of these books? Do you is that important to have a sense of realism?

52:24  
I think there there I whether it's consciously or not, I work my way into to the book. Good for sure. Yeah, absolutely.

52:34  
My mother keeps working herself into her song into my songs like 10 years after her death. So it's a really weird thing that happens. You finish it, and then you're like, "How did you get in there again? Like, there's little shards of that. Listen, it's been amazing talking to you, and we always leave with one question. And I'll just throw it over to Caitlin. I think it's important for listeners to know how we cope and what we do.

53:02  
Yeah, in the midst of you know book touring and insanity and working on a new series, what's one thing you try to do to take care of yourself?

53:11  
I try to try to exercise. That's whether that's a you know I'm out of I'm not running right now. I'm not in running shape, but I I went for a long walk today before we recorded. I need to move my body in order to keep my mind healthy for sure. That's that's so important. I think walking is just one of those things that just resets, reboots. I'd be remiss if I didn't

53:38  
ask you where your sweater is from before we go, I must know, and I'm sure that everyone watching on YouTube is going to want to know this as well.

53:44  
This is from a Canadian company called Yes Go Go Sweaters, and I don't know if I can show you. Probably not. Okay, so that that was awkward, but on the back it's like late girl. No way!

53:59  
I love it.

53:59  
It's got. It's very long, and it's got these like big buttons and big pockets, and it's just a cozy. It's so cozy

54:07  
that even a drunk lake person could do up. And these are important things. You're standing up from your Adirondack chair. You can find that button and get it into

54:19  
the loophole. You

54:20  
are absolutely inspiring. I wish you continued success. It's it's wonderful to be able to cheer somebody on, and I think Canadians are particularly so proud of where they come from, and they're so proud when when someone they know does well and tells great stories and brings a lot of hope. So I can't wait to see what you do next. We're all waiting for the sci-fi romance. I fucking know I am. I'm waiting. I'm waiting for the Carley fortune. If you want, if you want me to be there to help you with the pitch, I will go. It's just outer space, you know. Romance. You are the

55:03  
person who was asked that of me, Carley.

55:07  
Come on, it's like it's like maybe there's it's a it's a throuple in space. I feel like I just

55:15  
learned so much about you, Jan. And the woman and

55:19  
the woman has to make a choice. They're on the space station. They've got lots of food. They've got wine. They've got lots of AI stuff to keep it going. But they're up there, and they've got to make it work. Yeah. And then anyway, I don't want to give away the whole story because I know our listeners will be dying. Carley Fortune has been our guest today. Listen, if you're not part of our book bag, one of her damn books is it's it's on the docket. We're going to be talking about it. This is it this week, Sarah. We're we talk about the books. I can't wait. I wish you could be part of it. And you know what? If you have 10 minutes to pop in on our Zoom call, Sarah can send you the link. I think they would shit a gold one if you popped in and said and said hello, but yeah, we're we're we're cheering you on and supporting you, and you've been picked as our book bag for you know hundreds of our readers to go out and get and buy and read and talk about, and it's it's really fun. So we're here cheering you, and they love the art pod to

56:16  
say

56:17  
lots of love, lots of love for the book, continued success. You you're welcome on the podcast anytime, Carley. And keep doing what you're doing. Keep walking those woods. Keep hugging trees, and think space. Space. I think it's ready 2028. Your book, next book, not this one. Give it some thought, Carley. Carley Fortune has been our guest at the Jan arden Podcast. We will see you next time. Thanks for joining us. As always, Caitlin Green, Sarah Burke, Carley Fortune. Toodle doo.

Transcribed by https://otter.ai