From Prime Suspect to Scene of the Crime: Lynda La Plante’s Criminal Empire

Jann Arden  0:07  
Well, gracious, good day, everyone. I am jannArden. You're listening to the jannArden podcast. In case you were wondering where your dial had landed. Today, I am coming to you from Reykjavik, Iceland. I'm here, of course, with Sarah Burke Caitlin green. They are in their respective Toronto abodes, and later on in the show, I would be remiss not to tell you that one of the most prolific and influential crime writers, pretty much of all time, like seriously, she goes back to the 70s, 80s, 90s, responsible for prime suspect. Of course, that put Helen Mirren on the map when she played Tennyson, the main character. But anyway, she's got a brand new series that's coming out. She's done many, many, many books, sold millions of them, but she's going to be with us the second half of the show. She's a really interesting broad. She is in her early 80s, and she just has some great things to say about living in life. But yeah, bringing me back to the girls, what is going on in the worlds of Caitlin and Sarah? This week,

Caitlin Green  1:12  
I had an IRL photo shoot for the kit. Last week I saw it, yeah, and I hate having my photos taken so much. And because I feel like, for some reason, in my years in media, whenever I had new photos taken, I always look like a realtor.

Jann Arden  1:27  
Like the arms crossed, everybody looks like a realtor. At some point, I

Caitlin Green  1:32  
also would go into the spaces and, like, talk to the photographers, and I'd find out, like, oh, I used to photograph sunshine girls, and I just thought, this isn't going to be an energetic match. And so I went to the Toronto Star's office, which is down at Spadina, in front really beautiful building, like part of the well, kind of where that all is not far from you. I love the well, isn't it so great? I just walked around afterwards, like basking in the glow of a nice photo shoot. And I was texting with Meredith Shaw, because she has her photo taken a lot as a model. And I was like, Do you have tips for your friend who looks like a potato with what do

Sarah Burke  2:00  
we do with our hands?

Caitlin Green  2:03  
I look like the Kool Aid man in most of my photos that are taken. So she did have good advice. And we were just laughing, because I was like, 15 years working in media, and my first like, organic external coverage is for a haircut. It was for an article about cutting off all your hair, but yeah, it was really fun. So that was cool. And then we bid on and lost a house, which was an emotional roller coaster.

Jann Arden  2:28  
So tell me about it. It's obviously very, very competitive in Toronto. You guys are presently on what floor of your condo building? We're on the seventh floor. So the top floor, seventh floor, yeah, so my condo is

Sarah Burke  2:39  
the eighth floor. Okay, yeah, the market. What's the market like? To give us a little

Jann Arden  2:43  
back exactly, give us give us a

Caitlin Green  2:44  
low down. So the market is soft for everything all around compared to what it has been in years past. I would say this is a correction to like, closer to where it should be. By no means is housing affordable. It is not affordable. But houses that were overvalued, like sheer dumps, that you would have to gut, that were selling for like, 1.7 or $8 million million dollars have dropped in prices, but they're still expensive. So we see a house that we really like, and we've already sold our place, so we have a move out day. So we're like, when is that end of June? So we do have a bit of time, but that's not like crazy. A 60 to 90 day close can be No, yeah, and we know that we're going to likely have to do some renovations, so there's a lot to happen soon. Anyway. So we went in, we made a bully offer, because that's when there's an offer night listed for houses, and if they're open to it, that means they'll accept a higher like an above asking price earlier. So we go in with what we think is a very generous bully offer over asking, oh, four other people have the same idea. So until, you know, 930 at night, we're getting calls, we're like, and then what about this offer that add this? We're just doing this back and forth with our realtor. I don't know how she does this for a living. It would kill me from stress. And we didn't get the house. We lost it to someone who bid more. You know what? It was okay, because I think the house was overvalued. You have to kind of keep your head about you in that bidding process like you have to still tell yourself, am I going to be able to extract value from this house? It's an investment at this price point, and it just didn't make sense to us. So we lost out, and we would have had to do a serious run out. So we're back on the hunt. But that stunk.

Jann Arden  4:16  
You know, the fewer renovations you have to do, really, it would behoove you to find something more or less move in ready. I think redoing a bathroom is okay, or, like updating a sink in the kitchen, or, oh gosh, we can probably keep these cupboards and refinish them and paint them, but it's great wood and it's great quality, and maybe reconfigure them. You know, remember, kitchens are always cubed up. Those, those can always come off the wall, and you can reconfigure the stuff you already have. Anyway, I know this because I am renovating my dad's shop with Tiffany Pratt. Tiffany Pratt, who just was the designer, the head designer of the Home Show, and she knocked it out. Of the park in Toronto. I mean, she blew people's mind. Tommy Smyth sent me a picture of of her and him. I just say this because we were talking about Renaults, and it made me think of her. But he's just like Jan. Nobody could have done this but Tiffany. And I say it also because she's a friend of our show and has been here a few times talking about that. Anyway, I'm sorry you didn't get the house. I think there's other things that will come your way. And I know you're probably thinking, where Will's gonna go to school and neighborhoods, and what does the yard look like? There's so

Caitlin Green  5:27  
many factors. You'll you'll find stuff. Yeah, we're, I'm just happy to be doing it. And moving forward, we were fortunate and that we had a private sale of our condo. And I think we did well, quite. Went through. Went through Exactly. Yes, I think it went really well for us. And, you know, advantageous for all parties. It was a good price. The condo market is very soft. I mean, if you think the housing market is off, the condo market in Toronto was very soft. But yeah, and then you guys would appreciate this. We went to the rom this weekend. Will is obsessed with dinosaurs. We went to the ROM. We saw the dinosaurs. We saw the sharks. And I also watched the new Netflix dinosaurs, quote, unquote documentary. It's all like animated CGI, but it's Steven Spielberg, Morgan Freeman voices it. And I think it might be my favorite show I've seen in a long time. I am now. I am obsessed with dinosaurs. Again, I was as a kid, and now I, me and Will are like, very into this. So we watched it together all weekend. We finished it, and then we went to the ROM so that was very cute, and I need to take him to drum Heller, jannnear you, it's gonna have to happen at some point.

Jann Arden  6:22  
Crazy Town. Crazy Town, mini Grand Canyon, exactly. Anyway. Sarah, what do you been up to? What's happening?

Sarah Burke  6:29  
I just want to let you know, Caitlin, that I am thinking of Airbnb, my place for World Cup, yes. So I would totally just make a deal with you on the side. If you guys end up homeless for a month. Just know that I got I got you. Okay, good. I'm covered. Yeah, although I feel like it would be a trek to daycare, that's the only thing that

Caitlin Green  6:49  
would suck. It's like that your place, like West End of the city, or we're gonna be in, like, Halifax.

Jann Arden  6:53  
Listen to me, if you are stuck, stay at my condo. Oh, right, the Jan

Sarah Burke  6:57  
doe, okay, there's so many options.

Jann Arden  7:00  
You just, I can't Airbnb there. Like, there's none of that. Yeah, it's just, it's, there is a sticker on the door that said no to that, and I would never go against the rules. They really love the the admin of a great building. Yeah, but keep that in mind. Going to, like, if you guys are truly stuck and you're looking at, like, four or five or six weeks, you might have to put up with me sleeping there a couple of nights if I have work or something. But you guys could squeeze well, we'll

Caitlin Green  7:29  
crawl into bed. Will we crawl into bed with you? He loves sharing a bed.

Jann Arden  7:33  
Well, you guys, could three of you sleep in the big bed and I'll sleep in the queen size bed. We could work it out seriously, me and poppy might just need to be there. We could have family dinners. Oh God, it'll be so great, wow. And five, six years will go by, we'll still be there happily.

Caitlin Green  7:50  
My house won't be done.

Sarah Burke  7:53  
Thortis is like, there needs to be some separation here, guys, we need to have calling you mom. I joined a legion this weekend. Yeah, lots of the Legion, yeah. Got lots of exercise. Dan brought his bike down, and I just, I feel like I've mentioned this on the show before. My boyfriend's in the past with bike riding. It's been indoor, in the Oculus, okay? It's been non existent. And I love bike riding. Okay? So when he said, I'm throwing my bike in the truck. I was so excited. We made it out for like, a good 30k all the way to the east end and back, you know, couple bar stops on the way, snacks, drinks. So fun. Joined the Legion on the way home, because we went in for a drink.

Jann Arden  8:35  
There, for those who don't know, please a small background on Legion.

Sarah Burke  8:40  
So, like, you would pay, like, a yearly membership in the war.

Jann Arden  8:45  
It was a club made for veterans. It was a it was a legions club. I went there my entire life with my grandfather, who fought in the Second World War in Italy.

Sarah Burke  8:55  
I've definitely spent time at several legions like, but mostly around like, Remembrance Day and radio stuff. And in Nunavut, the Legion was like the hottest place to go, right? So it's their 100th anniversary this year, I will tell you, and anyone can join the Royal Canadian Legion for free this year. But they have contests. If you pay ahead for your 2027 you get a chance to win, like a Dodge Ram or whatever. So anyway, I was very excited to go to join everyone. Should it goes towards the veterans, right? Yeah, the money. So met the president, this cute, adorable woman, Mary, who I want to just saying hi to Mary, and they she's like, let me give you a tour. She takes us out lakefront patio.

Caitlin Green  9:37  
So I was gonna say, are you you're at the one on the West End, not far from the ex

Sarah Burke  9:41  
right after you get up the hill, which is you die on the bike ride up the hill. So like, treat yourself to a drink at the Legion when you get up the hill. So, so excited. And like, I can see myself working there on the patio. She's like, we got Wi Fi. You do whatever you got to do here. So I'm excited. And they have a big st Patty's party coming up. And like. Guess where I'm gonna be.

Caitlin Green  10:00  
My friend got married there, and it was absolutely, yeah, it was beautiful. It was a great spot we do events. Yeah, it's right on the water. It's a really stunning spot in Toronto, like that location would cost a fortune, and it's so nice that it goes to the Legion. And also a hack, if you're in town for the air show or fireworks ever, it is the best view of the air show and fireworks in the whole city. Probably this

Jann Arden  10:21  
just keeps getting better. And finally, Jen, who knew? Who knew? Do you think the Allegiant would like to to sponsor the Jane Arden pot?

Sarah Burke  10:28  
I can, I can talk to Mary. Yeah, I'll talk to Mary.

Jann Arden  10:31  
Mary, we'll get you some members going in there. Mayor,

Sarah Burke  10:35  
yeah. But we took the the kids we picked up in Toronto, because his ex was in Toronto this weekend, and we took them bike riding, like with he has the seat on the bike for the little one and then a like, pull behind thing for the older one. So we were, like, a bike riding brigade this weekend. Is great, yeah, it was awesome. My butt. I love that. My butt really

Jann Arden  10:54  
hurts today, so the fact that we are doing children, Sarah, yeah, over to you. I have a cold from my soon to be stepson, swan. Oh, he had when I got here. Oh, the poor little guy. We went and picked him up from school, because the teacher phone and just said, this child is miserable. So we went and picked him up, and he just collapsed into thortis arms, because he was just, you know, when you You're really strong for as long as you can be, and then you see your mom and but anyway, I got it from him. So it's just, you know, when you're a person who's lived alone in the trees for many, many years, and you suddenly are around, we've both had this. I've been sick. Yes, no, from some, from one of the children, Caitlin's like, I know

Caitlin Green  11:40  
it's the type Caitlin. I'm like, I've had everything under the sun. I actually think my immune system is finally catching up to the amount of illnesses I've had, because we've dodged a few rounds of it. Like, I am long overdue to be bedridden for a few days right now. It's true, though. Like, I just know the cycles right? And it's there's a spring thaw happening in Toronto. The kids are gonna get sick at school. Like it's just gonna happen. But I will say that when you get sick from a kid, it is the sign of like, you're you have some child love in your life, because it means that they're close to you. It means they share their little germs with you. They push their face into yours, like it really is, oh God, as hard as it is to be like, Oh, I'm sick, I always think of it in like this just means, like, there's a kid that really likes you and that's so nice,

Jann Arden  12:22  
it comes to the territory thortis is, like, that's what family is. You know, you just get ill. Anyway, I feel like I'm going to get through this though you

Caitlin Green  12:30  
can expect, like, pediatricians always say between, I think it's pretty much November, like the beginning of November, right out of the gate, all the way through to kind of the end of March. If you have taught, like, young school age children and preschool age children in your life, you will be sick probably every four to six

Sarah Burke  12:43  
weeks at least. And now my sister, because I did go to see her last Thursday, and we can talk more about that after on Patreon, maybe. But now after norovirus, Hand, Foot and Mouth, come on like

Jann Arden  12:56  
what Charles Dickens is here today. Dickensian and now Caitlin green and the scroll.

Caitlin Green  13:10  
So the situation in Iran is the biggest story happening, I think probably around the world right now. I'll try to keep it focused on Canada, specifically, because there's so many moving pieces to this. But I think the biggest thing that happened was Sunday, there was a call between Donald Trump and our pm Mark Carney. Apparently, the call seemed to be like, pretty bog standard, and they're just trying to stay focused on efforts to protect Canadians in the region. They're saying, Canada is saying that we're working with our partners to de escalate the conflict. I don't know what that means, but the statement that the pm released just after that was that Canada was not consulted, did not participate, and has no plans to participate in the offensive actions against Iran that are being undertaken by the US and Israel. So this really does feel increasingly like the kind of thing that allies are going to be pulled into, kicking and screaming, if at all. I think it's like largely quite unpopular, and immediately it's costing everyone more money, because oil prices are going up. So obviously, the Middle East, oil region, strait of Hormuz, you're going to hear all about these things all over the news. So you're going to see oil I think it reached the highest it's been in the last four years, probably since the conflict in Russia with Ukraine kicked off. So now oil prices are going up. Also tons of fertilizer from the Middle East. So food. People are talking about food prices like things that were already very top of mind for everybody, like affordability and food affordability. They've kind of like resurfaced as it connects to this story. And I do want to add that Canada has probably one of the largest Iranian diasporas in the world. So there's a lot of people who are from Iran and have close family members there. If you have an Iranian in your life, check in, ask how they're doing. There's been incidents, you know, safety related incidents that have popped up here in the GTA there will continue to be like, you know, higher alerts going on for police forces. So yeah, if you have some friends you know that fall into this category, I would just say, check in and see how they're doing, because it's really a rough time for them now. To counterbalance this with some good financial news, the average rent in Canada has fallen to. A 33 month low as of last month. This is for the first time in six years, Canadians are now spending less than 30% of their income on rent. That is truly how unaffordable It was to be here. And it's not just like smaller markets. It's like Toronto and Vancouver, like the two most expensive housing markets in the country, are seeing this big drop. And if you're thinking about renting, you're thinking about moving. You know, some people, they downsize and they say, I don't want to own anymore. I'm going to sell my going to sell my house and I'm going to rent. I don't want to deal with the management of it. It is a really good time to do that, because there just seems to be this perfect storm of like, more supply than there is demand. And so I think the market's going to continue to like, plummet for people. So that's good news. And then on the entertainment front, Timothy Chalamet, my God, I need someone to sit down with him, maybe his mom, because his mom was a ballerina, his grandmother was a ballerina, and for some reason, he was doing one of these, you know, Hollywood round table talks with Matthew McConaughey. He is in the lead up to the Oscars, which are happening this Sunday night, and he is up for Best Actor for his role in Marty supreme. He said that he felt like he wanted to be a part of movies, and he wanted movies to still be enjoyable, and that he wants people to go to them, and he doesn't want them to fall into this category of people feeling like, we have to save movies. We have to save the movie industry, because no one's interested in it anymore. And then he cites like opera and ballet. Basically, that was to paraphrase what he said. So all these artists, like even pop artists like doja cat comes out, everyone starts saying, Why are you picking on opera and ballet when your a mom and grandmother were involved in the ballet in New York and B when these are, like art forms that inspire so many people and are so creative and wonderful, and maybe are a lot better than Marty supreme, Jan, so that's why he's hated it. You didn't like it.

Jann Arden  16:37  
I just No. It's, I mean, it's about ping pong. His character is so unlikable I would punch him if I met him in real life, in the throat. Just a bad a bad dude. He impregnates this poor girl. He is just like, Okay, hello, the patriarchy is alive and well, no, it's not for me. Don't watch it. Don't waste your time. That's my opinion.

Unknown Speaker  17:01  
All right, thank you. How's the scroll? We're

Jann Arden  17:06  
going to take a really, really short break, and when we come back, we are going to be interviewing the one, the only crime sensation, novelist, the novelist crime sensation, the woman who writes novels, and she's a sensation, all of those things. Linda LaPlante is up next.

Jann Arden  17:29  
I want to introduce our next guest, Linda la plante is a crime writer, and she's been doing it for decades. She has worn many hats over the years, a producer. She has opened her own production company. She was an actor and a very highly trained actor at the Royal Academy. She's been awarded everything you can possibly imagine to do with her crime writing. She's had such great success in movies, on television. Prime suspect in particular, all of you guys who were crime junkies from the 90s. I think prime suspects set the tone for crime dramas going forward without any further ado. This is a woman that has sold millions and millions of books. This is a brand new series that she is starting now, called scene of the crime. Please welcome our guest all the way from jolly London, England. Linda LaPlante,

Lynda La Plante  18:19  
thank you so much, and I'm very proud to be here.

Jann Arden  18:22  
Listen, tell me where this all began for you. I have read many of your books. I was lucky enough to read your memoir. I was fascinated with your childhood, and if we could just start there and where this bug for your creativity began.

Lynda La Plante  18:37  
I remember as a child writing plays and my father used to carry around in his wallet a scrap of paper to show people as it was very humorous to him that he had a daughter that couldn't spell. And he said, you know, it was virtually, this is a play, what I wrote. But I remember one incident very, very clearly. I had a friend, and this sometimes it's so bizarre that you clearly remember names, and her name was Jane, and she said, Oh, my mother is doing a show at the church hall, and they've got all the costumes at the house. And it was a bit like, you know, that scene from et when they're on their bike with the baskets and eaties, we're off to Jay Maxwell's house. We gather all these costumes for this production of carousel, and we get them all back to Mike garage. And I mean, we were tiny. I was a devil with a pair of scissors. I cut off sleeves, cut off hoods and Jane Maxwell's Brown's mother called my mother and said, Is Jane with Linda? And my mother said, I think so. They were in the garage. She said they wouldn't have some costumes, would they? It's just that we have a dress rehearsal tomorrow. She. So my mother said, Well, I'll just go and check. And it was like watching the seven dwarfs in these elaborate, wonderful costumes, all cut off at the knee and the elbows. And my mother nearly had a heart attack, I bet. And apparently they sat up all night re sewing the sleeves. But after that, there was no question of showbiz. I mean, I was forbidden.

Jann Arden  20:25  
It's just something that gets into your blood. I mean, you are a trained actor Royal Academy of Dramatic Arts, no less. And obviously it might have been frustrating perhaps for you to not see the roles for women that maybe prompted you to go, dammit. I can write this

Lynda La Plante  20:42  
myself, sort of, but I mean, it was a long process before that. Yes, absolutely. In fact, even at drama school that in the Royal Academy, you're dependent on that last show after your two years of training. They put on a play in the massive van Burke Theater, which is the size of a West End theater. That theater will be full of casting agents, producers, directors. You can be from a student you know, 1819, years of age, plucked out of drama at school straight into a movie. So when those scripts go up for the play and your part, you can hear it's like cattle running to see what part they're playing. Because if you've got a great part, you could be chosen very quickly into a movie. My character was called Sister Theresa. She was 78 in the first act and aged 10 years by the second act. I mean, there was like talk about depression and disappointment. There was no question of me ever being chosen as a young actress because I was playing this ancient nun, but I rehearsed as this very elderly nun with a crochet set they gave me to work on, and I was always at the back of the stage, you know, Being very quiet. And my one scene in Act One, the Mother Superior, the doorbell clanged in the chapel, and she said, Sister Theresa, would you please answer the door? My part was, Yes, Mother, get up, go out, open the door, come back and say it's the doctor, and her next line is, do show him in Yes, mother, that was it for the first act.

Jann Arden  22:49  
Well, you obviously know how to take advantage of a moment and have all eyes on you, and you have done that your entire career. You know, fast forward, you know, a litany of things happened. We would need a show six hours long, but you, you had massive breakthroughs in the 80s. But I want to talk about just your writing prowess and the confidence and bravado you had going into prime suspect, and what that was like getting that show made, and you knew exactly who you wanted to star in that production.

Lynda La Plante  23:20  
Yeah, I wanted an actor to begin with. When they were casting, they threw all kinds of names at me, and I kept saying no. And really, this part of what really infuriates me now, you know, they do cast so young, yeah, you have, you know, high ranking detectors played by a 22 year old. Impossible. It's impossible, yeah, to actually maintain the right age and have an actor like Helen Mirren. But the extraordinary thing is, when I brought up her name, it was, Oh, yes, Freddie, what TV has she done? And I said, she's done movies. She's a great actor. She works at the Royal Shakespeare Company. I said, she's an actor, and it's like, oh yes. But nowadays, if you look what TV, what they've started doing, they can't put an actor by their name alone. They've got to say previously in something as if you cannot judge as a viewer, talent. And it is so frustrating, but back then, I mean, it was appalling, but I could only be as strong and determined about what I wanted was because of the way I work. I found a detective, female detective, high ranking. I found her. I worked neck and neck with her. She put me through an awful lot of trauma, particularly on the script. She sometimes read it and go rubbish, rubbish, rubbish, go for the jugular. And over and over again, when you know you move into production as you well know it's. So many people suddenly come on board, and because of working alongside the police and forensic for so long, I would not accept who they were offering me. So they rang me one day and they said, We found your killer. And you know when an actor says he's five foot seven, he's probably five foot four. They always lie about everything, because I knew this actor was short, and so I ran into the studio, and I said, Okay, look, I know he's quite a good actor, but if he can carry me over his shoulder down the corridor, then he has the part. And they said, why? I said, that's how the killer moves the bodies. I said he's got to be very strong. He's big man actually, in the script, he discusses his workout and his gym. And so they said, Oh, very quickly they said, well, we don't think this will work. And at long last, they actually found the actor that was six foot two and could carry a victim and be truthful and believe believable. And that was the biggest aim, to always be the truthful one. If you tell the truth and it is true and it is truly written, it bounces off the script in my humble goodness,

Jann Arden  26:22  
yeah, no, you're absolutely right. I'd love to talk to you about you know your writing, obviously, you've sold millions of books over the years, and you keep coming up with these diabolical plots and these characters and people that are so memorable. What is your work ethic? Like? You are so prolific. And this is going back so many years, Linda, and still, you know, here you are at 82, years old, one of the most prolific crime writers in the world. And it is so impressive. Where do you draw your inspiration from?

Lynda La Plante  27:00  
Real life. It's so inspirational. I mean, I say, if you read the paper, the danger is, if you take it from real life, that an awful lot of other writers do the same, so you have to dig and go under and find out. But if something doesn't interest you, I could not do every book, every play, every TV. If I wasn't fascinated, something always has to fascinate me. If it's art, then I'll go and, you know, to actually learn something from each book and everything I write. I am like educating still, and that part of it excites me. If I was, I mean, sadly, I would love to write a very sexy body ripping love yarn, not allowed to, you know, no, no, no, she's got to write crime.

Jann Arden  27:52  
That's it. Like a 50 Shades type of thing, a crime version of 50 Shades.

Lynda La Plante  27:56  
Oh, yes. So I'd like to have a go at that. But no, you can't. You've got to write. You're a crime writer, and you and, I mean, it's very frustrating because I'd really like to write a bonking book, because I'm very careful with bonking in my crime book, because I do find it so, so annoying when I reading a really good story, and suddenly, oh God, they've got a bonk. Now, you know, this is really tedious sex scene, but if you're going full out, but I wouldn't be allowed to, I don't think then probably, if I did, they say she's gone. See, now, can't do it.

Jann Arden  28:35  
No, you think it would be different if it were a man, you know, writing your books? Do you think that that narrative would be different, like, hey, it's a very good point that you make that as a woman, you don't feel like that's part of something that you could include in your stories, because you're so known for a certain kind of crime dramas. Is that sort of what you're saying?

Lynda La Plante  28:58  
I think the most male crime writers are pretty well the same. They don't suddenly introduce, you know, a love angle or a great, you know, love interest, because you got to knock them off or murder, right? But it's either way. You've also got to say, listen, they pay me. That's my commission. You know, that's where I earn my living, and sometimes to find out when they do these age kind of surveys, and you find out how old your readers are, and you think, Oh, are they? And that a lot of women read crime, and it's like they're always asking you to move towards a young audience. Can you get a young audience? Can you you go, well, give me a chance. Let me do a body Ripper, and I will. But no, I don't think so. I'm waiting, though I'm poised. I'd like to do a historical one.

Jann Arden  29:54  
Oh, my God, I would love. I would read anything that you wrote.

Caitlin Green  29:57  
Well, just to finish, Linda, your thought on doing. A bodice Ripper, maybe just do a like, write it under a pen name, and then no one will attach your crime history to it. And you can come up with, like a sexy pen name, although your name already feels like it should be part of like romance as well. But anyways, very interesting.

Lynda La Plante  30:14  
You know, when I do book signing events, and so you have somebody asking all the questions, and this journalist was asking me about my memoir, and he said, I noticed in your memoir that you really don't say an awful lot about your husband or describe a lot about him. And I went, Yes, absolutely, you know, sod him, of course I didn't. But he said, but you do claim over and over again, that the only decent thing he ever gave you was your name. And I said, Yes, and then I changed the subject two days later, in the diary of a big national paper in England the Daily Mail, it says Linda la plante has been quoted as saying that the only decent thing her husband gave her was his name. Unfortunately, we couldn't verify this, because he died two months ago, and it was such a shock because the realization of those years I spent with him. You know, 20 years is a long time, and of course, there were extraordinary, funny times, but I don't know that inference and that invasion into you is something I've always detested. The more public you become as a writer, Jane, I mean, you must know, Jan, what it's like. I mean, they will invade you and be unaware of the damage and the pain they can cause. I'm so private. So my memoir, I thought there's only a few times I kind of throw a bit of dirt at a few people, because I am very private. My life is very private. I like it that way.

Caitlin Green  32:12  
We've had so many talented authors on the show, and I think to Jan's point earlier, probably not as many, if any, as prolific as you are, just in terms of the volume of your work. I mean, the sheer amount of writing that you've done is so impressive, and I think it really speaks to the discipline likely of you just being able to sit down and finish something, which I think a lot of people struggle with. So I'm just wondering if you have any advice or insight on your like, schedule of when you're writing something and working on something, can you sit down and go through, you know, three, four hours at a time. Do you have to go to a different part of the house? Like, like, how does that work for you?

Lynda La Plante  32:46  
I get up and have breakfast. I'll go straight to work. I am so prolific, because I spend so many hours mentally going through the plot, I won't actually begin rolling the story until I know almost every inch of it, but I, unfortunately, have, you know, such an obsession, I can work for 10 hours at a go and not stop. Oh, my God, because it's like I get into a race. Recently, I had to do the last book in a series about a detective called Jack wall. And he'd reached a point in the series of books about him where I'd been showing he's got a bad side, and it was getting a little bit worse each book, it's there, it's underwritten, but it's there. And so then my publisher said, you know, he's got to go and you've got to kill him. And I often think if there was a camera where I work, I think people would freak because I'm talking away to myself, I'm crying, I'm laughing. It's like that train starts and I've got to get through it and got to finish it. Because a big note for writers is, I can pick up a book and halfway through, I'll tell you you're losing the plot. You've lost it, because they know where they are halfway through and then income, maybe I should meet the villain, the next door neighbor, not the woman. So they're changing, and you can feel that they're moving their plot. They're slightly out of zinc. And it is so annoying, because often you've got that problem in the middle of a book, you know, creating crime from chapter one to the last chapter is you have to be ahead of your reader. You have to give them the clues, but they should be so well buried and clever if they've got you by chapter three, you might as well not finish the book. You have to be very creative in your writing. Mean and keep the pace up. Over and over again. You see crime novels fall down by Midway they've gone. They've lost it. And the old timers, you know when you read the old time crime writers of the old days, no Raymond Chandler, really incredible characters. He creates wonderful characters. Is my favorite crime writer, and I think that's very, very important. But for me, my characters are always based on reality someone I know, if I haven't met them in prison, if I haven't read about them, you know, I will hunt them down, and that's part of the enjoyment to me of writing. It is in, you know, 24/7 of the computer I'm out, and the more you go out and double check your facts, you come back and you've got another quality. And it's very interesting to think that when I was an actor, I played more prostitutes in virtually every single crime show that was ever on TV. I am there as a prostitute falling out of cause. Hello, love coming my way when I wrote

Jann Arden  36:12  
widows, which is brilliant, by the way, absolutely brilliant. Oh, thank you.

Lynda La Plante  36:17  
I went and talked to the hookers. I sat with them at cafes, and I suddenly realized I'd only scratched the surface of those characters, and that as an actor, you know, I thought, Oh, I know, hello. Are you all right? Lot more than that. There's a depth to them, and so that's the way I've always worked, and every single thing I've ever written, and I don't think there's a character that I couldn't say, Come with me. I'll show you. I remember in prime suspect Zoe wanna make her played the girlfriend of the killer, and she said she's a wonderful actress. And she said, I'm unsure. I said, don't go up to her, but watch her, and she was a makeup artist in a very big department store behind the counter, because the way she was speaking, Oh, lovely. That's very nice. Darling. Lovely nails, yes, and those little kind of anecdotes, they really add so much to your work, I think.

Jann Arden  37:20  
On that note, Jessica Russell is the newest character, because this is a brand new series from you, the first book, scene of the crime we have chosen. But Jessica Russell is an experienced CSI, and she's got degrees in psychology and criminology. Can you talk to us a little bit about this character and this new series that you've embarked on,

Lynda La Plante  37:42  
Jessica is really, you know, she could be quite tedious as a person. In fact, you know, there's a little bit of know all about her, and she tries not to, but she can't stop it. She is a know all, and it's very awkward for her, because she sees things that other people don't see, and it's like watching now. Why? Why have I got that quality? Why, when you watch heightened forensic experts looking at a blood splatter, it's extraordinary, their tension and their absolute focus. And I noticed that all the forensic scientists I've been working with has an ability of such stillness when they take in esteem. You know, there's no Oh god, it's terrible, but watch them take it in. I mean, so fast. How they can say as a clue that don't move that carpet, there's something underneath it. Don't touch that, leave that so that your crime scenes are really, really sacred to scientists. Now, you know, whereas the police, you know, used to put the fag ends into their pockets, they were always smoking cigarettes everywhere, footprints over the prodding the deceased. Now they're mostly keep out of the crime scene because the content they find. And Jessica is not only aware of the content, but she's a psychologist. And you go, how does somebody gain all that experience? And she's gained it through pain. So she's had in her life a number of traumas that have marked her. She had an assault. My favorite line in the book is watch her interview her assailant. This is a boy that traumatized her. She was training as a probation officer, and this young boy was trusting. She was trustful for him. She really liked him. She was encouraging him. Then he goes for her. He attacks and he is a repellent human being. He's just gone off the rails since then, but she has a sequence where she wants to draw Absolutely, extraordinarily, a. Evidence that he didn't commit a crime. And you see the way she very, very carefully teases out the truth from him, and he is so taken and so emotionally charged that she's done this for him. When she gets up to go. He reaches towards her to say, thank you. Now you hear her, and she says, Don't touch me. And it comes right underneath, and it's like a punch, and you go, that's what she was feeling all the way through that interrogation. That was she was able to disguise that, and that is her power. You know, she sometimes even has to tell herself to take it easy, don't snap, and to have climbed that high up in her career, she faces, and it's hard to believe that we're still facing opposition from male counterparts

Jann Arden  41:01  
is Jessica Russell, someone that you've based a real person on as well.

Speaker 1  41:05  
Linda, she's a multiple She's three, three people. She's three people.

Jann Arden  41:10  
Is it daunting to think? I mean, this is a series, so you've got other books that you are going to be writing, or probably, or have already started on this series. And I wanted to ask you, obviously, forensic clues have changed so much over the last 30 years. I mean, the science has changed so much. And as a writer, it must be so daunting to keep up with the procedures and the science. And you obviously do your groundwork, because you have adapted like so well to an ever changing like the all the CSI shows and the and the lengths they go to to extract DNA, and like you were saying, I mean, it's got to be so much work for you to do that it is. But I've

Lynda La Plante  41:53  
always found that when I keep on saying, go to source, I have never had a scientist say, look, I haven't got time to talk to ever, I've never, ever met one single scientist that said no. And if you're now looking at the advancements of DNA, that you can take a cold case of 40 years and still gain a result with familial DNA, where they can trace family backgrounds. And it's also becoming harder to write, because Joe Public are all watching every single crime show. They're ahead of you. Sometimes in a trial, you will actually see, you know, a couple of the jury think, well, they should have got there by now. It's, you know, a bit slow. Haven't they got DNA? And it's extraordinary how our public are really advanced. They watch everything, they know everything, and so you have to keep up in your game. The moment I am bored is the moment I'll stop.

Jann Arden  42:57  
Yeah, I was just going to say, are you ever going to just put your feet up and have a gin and tonic. And just say, I'm done now.

Lynda La Plante  43:04  
The gin and tonics always there, but I don't see the feet going up quite yet, but that's the moment. It's just that. I mean, why do you get driven by something so art? I look at a painting. And I asked, How can a 29 year old American street kid who dies of a out of a heroin overdose, how does his painting now make 100 million selling for 100 million? How? Why? What happens to his paintings? How prolific was that boy at that young age, and so that starts me off on a kick, because I didn't know this artist's work.

Jann Arden  43:51  
Yeah, art is It's permanent, and you leave such a legacy. Do you ever? Do you ever think about that, Linda, of what you leave behind you? I think you're so inspiring, because I feel like so many women get to a certain age and they feel invisible, and they feel like they don't matter and that they shouldn't be trying things. And I think you defy that notion constantly, and you have always at every age, Linda, have pushed back whether you're starting a new television series or a new book series, and I'm wondering how you perceive yourself. You've done so much for so many hundreds of women in that industry.

Lynda La Plante  44:31  
I get details and help from all the people that I use for my work, and I do it out of respect. I respect every single person, be it a prisoner, whatever they give me their time and their expertise, I respect them. There is very little respect in the industry that I'm involved in. You may get an award here and you may get an award there, but at. Actually the physical respect is not really very positive. I was sent a book by my publishers, and they said, Would you write, you know, a blurb over the front? I said, Yes, of course. I read this, and it blows my head off and I'm thinking, Oh my God, this has got to be a really young person writing this. This has got to be so young. I look at the title. Her name is Mary Tierney. I thought, God, she's so young. And it's called deadly animals. And I'm reading, the publisher said, Look, I want to do a by work. I said, would you say I would like to have written this book? And they said, Are you serious? I said, Yes, 55 year old woman, first book never written a thing before, and it's so exciting to me to say, My God, age don't matter. Look at that. Yes. Her first book is so exciting, and that is the biggest thing I can do is encouraging to be fearless, you know. And I always say, don't keep going back over first second chapters. Keep going, keep going, keep going to finish it and they get a lawyer. But reality is, you know, I am very fortunate to enjoy what I am doing.

Jann Arden  46:21  
You are unbelievably inspiring, Linda, you're a fiercely talented woman in everything that you put your hand to. I just want to remind everyone, scene of the crime is an extraordinary new series by Linda la plante. And yes, her long deceased husband did give her that name, but, you know, she gave him a lot too. She lets this man live on for God's sakes his family should be kissing her feet. And it has just been such a delight talking to you and just Bravo. Thanks for Thanks for trudging through the snow banks for the rest of the 55 year old women coming in behind you feeling like they can do it. Linda la plante has been our guest today on the jannArden podcast. Thank you so much, Linda.

Lynda La Plante  47:04  
Thank you very much indeed. I loved it. Thank you.

Jann Arden  47:07  
And as always, we're going to be listening to some voice notes, and hopefully we have some this week. Sarah, yes, we do.

Speaker 2  47:12  
Hi, Jan. It's Theresa Mackintosh bass from the smallest province in Canada, which is Prince Edward Island. Just want to let you know that I've been a big fan of yours since you started singing. And I'm 69 years old. I'll be 70 next March. Happy birthday, 69 this March, I've seen you live a concert many times. I've watched every show, every documentary, anything you're on. I watch anyway. Just want to say it's lovely to be able to see what you're up to now that you have your podcast going and very happy for you and you finally found your person. I lost my person six years ago. He was in the Canadian military, so it's been a lonely, old role, but thank you for thanks for my to my grandkids and my kids. That keeps me going anyway. Live life to the fullest. That's my motto. Love you lots, and keep on doing what you're doing.

Jann Arden  48:13  
Appreciate it so much. It's just very kind. And yes, it's hard to lose people, and thank God for young people. Caitlin can attest to that. And now Sarah and me, I we can all say they keep you hopping and they keep your nose plugged with snot.

Speaker 3  48:26  
So hi, Jan. Sarah Caitlin Kelly from Sault, Ste Marie, Ontario, I just finished your podcast, and I wanted to share a couple family dynamics that I've been dealing with my whole life, almost 50 this year, when I was in grade six, my mother got married while I was at school, and I didn't even know she was getting married. I didn't know the gentleman she was marrying, and this was her third marriage. My birth father remarried and didn't invite me to his wedding either. I was about eight, and he had two girls with his wife, and my half sister got married last year, and I wasn't invited. Starting to get a complex about not being included in weddings, but it's been something I've had to deal with. My mother has since passed on, so I laugh about it now when I tell people stories of my upbringing, but I just want to thank you as all for sharing your life. Jan, a few weeks ago, you mentioned the change of life. Boy, did that bring back some memories. My grandmother used to use that term all the time. Here I am now going through the change of life, full menopause over here at 50. But I just want to share that I love you all, and thank you for giving me such joy every weekend. I look forward to it. And I was doing some budgeting, and I had to cut back on my Patreon, but I am still a. $5 member. Love you. Thank you.

Jann Arden  50:02  
Compromise so much. And I know there's so many things to spend money on, but I'll tell you what. We appreciate it so much, and we're just going to make sure that we keep doing fun content that brings joy and makes you think about, you know, the old days and the new days and all the positivity that's out there. We really want to tap into that too. So thanks so much

Speaker 4  50:19  
for your note. Appreciate it. Hi Sarah, Jen and Caitlin. It's Karen from Halifax here. Well, the latest podcast hit on the mark for me. In regards to sleep, my Fitbit smart watch, where I do track my sleep, classifies me as the draft sleeper. A giraffe sleeper is quick to get into a REM state, but like the real giraffe animal, we have shorter yet deeper sleep periods and early wake ups. That's me, for example, last night, I slept three hours six minutes with a sleep score of 72 and I wake up very early. Great tips, though, from Alana. And I will try to adapt a few. Also just started checking out her podcast episodes of the bedtime edit Sarah on your network. Appreciate Alana being on again our book bags. New pick by Caitlin, vigil by George Sanders, I'm just getting into doing the audible download again, as I have credits there. It's narrated by a whole cast this time. Can't wait to get further into this book about the soul ushering of the main character, dying, tycoon. KJ, boo, the ensuing Book Bank discussion will be lively, I am sure. Come on over and join us. Podcast listeners, if you're not a member. Yet it's a casual, friendly format and community, with the discussions being amazing and diverse. As always. Love hearing about the love and joy in all your lives, Toronto and Iceland. Oh, also, hoping the Easter Bunny may spur a will cameo Caton, if easter egg fun is an event he enjoys, steady on love and take care.

Speaker 5  51:39  
Thank you so much. That was lovely. My God, do we? Do we owe her money?

Sarah Burke  51:43  
Should we pay her? I know I'm like, I was

Caitlin Green  51:45  
just gonna say I love Karen from Halifax. She is our PR go girl. She really is. I will be doing something for Easter. For will my mom made such a big deal of Easter for me as a kid, and so I go over the top. So we will do something

Sarah Burke  51:58  
my mom did too. Do we need to do Easter things. Jen, yes.

Caitlin Green  52:02  
I mean, I say yes,

Jann Arden  52:05  
no, there's gotta be a goddamn basket.

Caitlin Green  52:07  
Yeah, I go to a parade. I go to the beaches Easter Parade. He gets a little outfit in a basket. We do an egg hunt like I go crazy. But I love holidays.

Jann Arden  52:15  
We love getting your voice notes. Don't forget to let us know what you're thinking about, what you're concerned about, if you have any comments on any of the shows, we're always so happy to hear from you. Linda LaPlante, thank you so much. That was such a funny, warm conversation. We hope you guys enjoyed that. Thanks to all our callers who left us voicemails, and, of course, to all of you guys who are going to be joining us on the other side of this with Patreon, we are going to explain the dinner table test.

Caitlin Green  52:41  
It's going to tell you whether or not you should quit your job. I'm going to give everyone the test. So if you're thinking about that, it's really, really good. I think this dinner table test could be applied to many other things, but

Sarah Burke  52:50  
think about it for work, if I'm not here next week, you know

Jann Arden  52:52  
exactly what happened. You failed the test. And of course, if you want to join up to our Patreon, it's $5 for extra content every week until next time from Caitlin green Sarah Burke and I'm jannin Iceland. We'll see you next time to Leduc. You.

Transcribed by https://otter.ai