Home is a Feeling

0:08  
Welcome, welcome, welcome to the Jan Arden Podcast. I am here with Caitlin Green, Sarah Burke. Caitlin Green is somewhere we don't know where. We're going to have her tell us that she's searching on the hunt for a house. If anyone has a home for sale that that measures up to the stuff that they need. Her and Kyle and Will, please let them know. Sarah Burke, I can tell by her background, she is at Dan's place somewhere, somewhere near the water. I want to give it away. I just don't want people to show up at your house. How are you guys?

0:39  
I feel like that was such a great intro for my life, where it's like very Dickensian of like, does anyone house for sale? Does anyone have a house for sale? Like the ragman's

0:48  
here, the ragman. Do you need a rag?

0:52  
I joke to my friends because they even don't know where I am. People have stopped asking me to hang out. People have stopped asking me to socialize because they just don't know what my status is, and I keep joking that I'm like loading up our covered wagon or packing up our hobos bindle and like riding the rails along like me and Will and Kyle are sharing a can of beans by an open fire. But no, we're we are in an Airbnb. We're in a lovely Airbnb at the moment of this recording, and we're here for another six days, and then we actually stay with dear friends of ours. We refer to them as Will's gunkles, his gay uncles, and so we're going to live with them for about a month, unless we find a house. So we'll be there for a month, and then we come back to our regular neighborhood in the east end of the city because we've got to get set up a little bit early for Will to plan, you know, kindergarten beginning, like to get settled before. So I was like, enough changes. Like I started a new job. I don't have a house. I'm moving every. I'm moving our entire life, like enough stuff that we like need for the next three months. I'm doing this every like 10 to 14 days. Oh my god! And then I'm like working mornings, and what's

2:06  
the thing that's changed the most from something you had the comfort of at home that you just don't have right now? You can't say the brick wall because it it's nice, but

2:17  
I think the location. I think I realized like our life was really centered around the location of our last place, as you do when you live somewhere for you know like 10 years, right? So all of your appointments, all of your favorite restaurants, you know there was a Shoppers Drug Mart at the end of our street, like yada yada. So I think just like constantly trying to recent recenter yourself as it pertains to how long does it get take you to get places in Toronto? That's a big consideration. Like how long does it take me to get around? How long does it take me to pick up Will from Uber? Like I'm just trying to acclimatize myself to things all the time.

2:45  
Will you ever drive? Will you ever drive?

2:48  
Yeah, man, that's a great question for right now. I should really. I've said this for years though, but there's just stuff always happens, and then I like then I have to do like I think it's 10 or 11 hours of in car lessons, and I have to do like another 14 hours of virtual like class lessons. We can record

3:09  
the podcast while you're in the car. So is

3:12  
that what you actually have to do to get a license now? Yeah, I thought you just took a fucking driving test. Like do the written test, take a driving test. g1

3:19  
is just that g2 is the in car stuff, yeah,

3:23  
yeah. So there's like it's a graduated licensing thing, and it's to prevent dummies from like me who don't know the width of the car they're driving from hitting everyone else who's a seasoned driver. Like I certainly get it, but um, yeah, and it's no it's no real excuse, but like look, life would be made easier at this moment if I drove, that's for sure. But God bless Uber, and we have been lucky enough to find places on Airbnb that are walking, you know, distance like longer walks, but walking distance to a lot of stuff that we need. But it's crazy. But like, I will say, what you do is you pare down your stuff. I mean, I was already a minimalist, but man, the amount of stuff we put in storage, the amount of stuff that we donated, the amount of stuff that we you know gave to friends, and so you you lighten your kind of load as a family, and that's one thing that I think has actually felt really good is me going like, oh, I don't need all this. Like this is the stuff we use every day. This is the stuff I look forward to using. This is the stuff I look forward to wearing. You keep that. You kind of like bin the rest of it. Yeah, totally.

4:18  
Are you still actively but looking though? Like, is there summertime is not great for buying. Is this what I'm told? Is it more of a fall thing? And I would think that people would want to move in the summer. It's nice you're not packing your shit into a van in 40 below. Like you give your month notice, sell it in July, get out of there beginning of September, and yada yada yada. But I guess that's just not the way it works.

4:41  
No, not typically. And what you're saying does ring true in a lot of ways. Like I'm, hey, we Kyle and I get into bed every night and say, "Thank God we're not doing this in February, because like we're we're out at the park when we're moving around. It's nice and sunny. You know, we were in the beach at a family friend's place for a while, and like, and we got to take Will down to the beach every day, and so. Even if you maybe don't have the most organized home temporarily, at least you can go out and do stuff. And moving is just easier in the summer. But because people go on vacation and because kids are done school, they're in summer camps in Ontario. A lot of people go to the cottage. Stuff like that starts to factor in, and so nobody wants to go through the rigmarole of listing their place, having the open houses, and then having to move themselves. And so you see a major slowdown in listings. But we actually saw, and I don't want to jinx it, but what's the difference at this point? We saw a really, really cute house last night, and we're really keen. Like we're going to go back with a designer. We're going to like talk about what we could do to like make it a more. It's okay, Poppy.

5:40  
Yeah, Poppy's like I too am sad for you. Well,

5:42  
no, it's because I knocked on wood, and oh really? He he thought I knocked on door.

5:48  
That's so funny. I knocked on wood underneath at my table too, but I don't have a Poppy protecting me. Anyway, so yes, we we are we're looking as much as we can. We saw two houses last night. I wanted to, so we're we're you know, but I think we're like I am delusionally optimistic as a thing I've weirdly learned about myself, and I do just believe we're gonna get a really great house that's right for us, and like, and we're fine. We're happy. Will's happy as a clam. He gets a new room every few weeks. He loves having stairs. He loves having backyards. Like he's just you know he's just along for the ride.

6:18  
What else could you ask for? I'm gonna put this out to our listeners once again. If you have a house for sale, if you would like to sell Caitlin and Kyle your home, if you know of anyone that has a cool private sale, if you if you know someone who dies, if someone passes over, and say they need to unload, Kyle and and Caitlin would be willing to take some of the furniture.

6:41  
Yeah,

6:41  
you know, as it's a fixer uppers fine, right, Caitlin? Are you up for that? A fixer upper. We'll

6:46  
do the renos. I'll bring my designer. We'll figure it out.

6:49  
Okay,

6:50  
you're back in Canada. Tell us about that. I'm

6:52  
back in Canada. I got back yesterday. It is amazing to me. And I was just talking to Thoris about this. You know, I got my flight was at nine a.m. WestJet Direct, six plus hours, had a little nap, watched a movie on Netflix, and I was home. And I was in my house here at 1130 It's just so funny coming through customs. The guy said, "It's really nice to meet you finally. He says, "I figured you'd come through my because I have Nexus, so I basically just waved my paper in the air. And he was a really nice guy. And then I got my luggage. My bag was the first off. Nobody's bags came out. My bag plopped out. I was looking around. I thought, well, where's everybody else's bags? And it was just there. And I ran over and grabbed it, shot out through the where they take your ticket when you when you go out into the to the arrivals hall. And it was a woman there, and she said, "Hey, Jen, welcome home. And I, she used my name, just my first name. Took the paper. You're good, she said. And I walked out. So this is my experience. I walked out of international because that's where you arrive, and there was one car standing there, and the guy, and the guy was a guy from Allied. So shout out to Allied. They pick me up here in my house all the time. Like when I have long trips, I've used this company for years. If you're in Calgary and you want a great, great company to use, it's Allied Car Service. Anyway, he just said, "Hi, Jan. Do you need a ride? I said, "I do. I said, "He says I'm working from here today. That was my day. I thought from the time I walked on here, and I knew the the flight attendant knew me on the plane. She was really nice. It's so bizarre making your way through life like that. Sometimes it felt I felt kind of teary eyed when I walked into the house because I just thought if everyone could experience walking through a day like that when we're not strangers to each other, and it doesn't always happen, folks. Trust me, it's this is a really rare thing for me, which I found it low key upsetting in a way. And I told Thoris this was the weirdest arrival home. So, but yeah, just travel is remarkable. It's a remarkable thing. I was on the lawnmower mowing the lawn that looked like a jungle, and I had woken up with the kids and with Thoris and had a quick cup of coffee. And she drove me to the little bus station because I don't like her driving an hour to Keflavik. It's it's the airport's a long way away. It's not in Reykjavik. It's in another city completely. So, yeah. So I just got on the plane and came here, and it was daytime. I had the whole day ahead of me. Imagine what people did 100 years ago or 200 years ago. Jesus Christ! It took them fucking five weeks to get a mile.

9:40  
It's crazy. It's crazy to think about you know people who crossed the Atlantic in like a steam liner. You might not have made it like, and if you did, you might have had scurvy. Like, who the heck knows what happened on those voyages? I I feel validated to know that you also experienced that because I mean, there's you have an added layer of heartstrings because you know you're. Beloved and family now are are in Iceland, so then there's the you know kind of like the two worlds. But even when I just go on a vacation, I sometimes can't believe that I started my day you know in one place, then finish it so far in another. It just it really I kind of enjoy when other people say, "Oh, this also pretzels my brain, because then I don't feel like I'm being weird because I'm like it does overwhelm me sometimes.

10:23  
If you're taking stuff like that for granted, I don't think you're really rooted in an authentic life. And I'm not trying to be mean spirited or say just because you don't think like me and you're missing out. I don't mean that at all. I mean to take stock of the opportunities that you have, just to be able to to move about this world, it's just crazy. You know, there's so many people that will never leave their little places that they're at. Only you know, poverty, government situations, war, unrest politically. Like there's most of the people on the planet do not have the opportunities that we have.

11:04  
You know, darn near every time I'm sat on a plane hurling through the air to go on a vacation or to see someone I care about in another place, I just think you won the birth lottery, and that's all that is. Kyle would say it's not as you know, it's it's more literal, but he will say lucky sperm. Like that's what he'll say. You know, if we hear about like a billionaire who inherited their family's fortune or whatever, he'll be like, "Well, lucky sperm, like must be nice. Well, and Sarah,

11:29  
she's going back and forth, and you know Dan's kids, and and just you're making your home what like what you thought where you were, and things can just change on a dime, like your situation and your future. So, if you ever feel like you're stuck, like if you ever feel like, oh, what does life hold for me? So much, so much adventure. Like you just have to be open for it and be ready for change, whatever that brings. And yeah, it can be really scary. Like I've never been married before. I'm definitely an older person, like I technically should be the grandmother to these children and not their stepmother. But that's what they're stuck with, unfortunately. And it's it's just such a bizarre opportunity that I never could have imagined in a million years. But I'm really good at it. Like I'm I'm stepping into it. Like I don't know, Sarah. I don't know how you feel. You know, being an extra right now, and you know, the extra parent, the extra set of hands, the extra heart, the extra love, the extra affection.

12:40  
Literally, I think it was a week ago. The girls were both having meltdowns before bed, and I felt like I don't know if I'm supposed to be here right now. Like, and it's not because I don't know what to do, but it's like I don't want to overstep, right? So you're you're always playing with balance, and like, how can I be helpful, but also make sure that the actual parent is making the decisions about how this this meltdown ends, right? So yeah, and it's something like we had a really great conversation about, so that I can make sure that I don't feel like weird about it the next time it happens. Good conversation to have, yeah, yeah. So that's the type of stuff. Like you know, what comes first is those those kids feeling good and the parent feeling good as well. It's not about me, the extra.

13:30  
No, and I and I thank you for that because I totally, totally hear what you're saying and I'm putting it into my heart because it's not about me. It's not about how I feel. I really appreciate you saying that. It is but it is weird about them, and but I also know you know Thoris, her whole character. She goes, I would never have ever introduced you to my children had I not been sure about

13:56  
us. Yeah,

13:56  
she goes. It just was you know in any dates that she had before, or any interactions that she had after her divorce, she was just like they were not coming near my kids. Yeah, yeah, not happening. Whatever my transition is from my divorce into this next part of my life, no, this is not. Yeah, they they won't be they won't even be stepping in the house. So

14:22  
yeah,

14:23  
I felt really that was part of the equation where I just felt like this is a such a real thing. It's it's not it's not casual. It's not you know

14:35  
anything. We'll see

14:35  
what happens. No, it was because and it was because of the way she involved the kids, and she's like, "I don't care if you break my heart, but don't break their hearts. Oh yeah, and that really exactly

14:47  
it

14:48  
it can make. Well, she does care if I

14:50  
break her heart; she'd kill me. Of course, no one's breaking. No one's breaking anybody' heart. Anybody. I remember

14:55  
we got like some feedback from. I think it was from some of our only gyms, just saying like, "Oh, it's too soon." You know, and I'm sure you know, Jen. Even if someone hasn't said it out loud to you, I'm sure people have thought those things about how fast both of these things have moved for both of us in our personal lives. And and again, it's like you know, in our last episode, you said something about we're grown ass women, right? Like we're not doing things that way. And and same sentiment here. It's like we're all adults here, and if you're starting a new relationship that means so much to you, and all things are pointing in the right direction, like why would you half-ass it? You're all in, or you're not, right?

15:35  
Yeah, no, no, exactly. Thoughts on this, Caitlin, from a distance, what does it look like?

15:43  
Well, again, I have learned, and this is funny because I feel like I would have been described by a lot of people as like maybe cynical or like sarcastic like years ago. But I honestly think the people who know me best know that in practice, I am at times delusionally optimistic, and I certainly am about people finding the right person, and I just think that because I know both of you so well, like you know the speed with which you were together with Thoris and together with Dan, it's you know wasn't I didn't think of it as like grown ass women, but I was like, they're not wasting time, like they don't have to they don't they don't have time to waste, and like they're not going to need to just be in a relationship for the sake of being in a relationship. So I feel like from watching on the outside, I was just like, yeah, it's legit, and you know it's legit. And I've look how many people like dated and did things the stereotypical like we dated for two years and then we lived together and we got married. They just get divorced too, anyways. Sometimes like there's there's really what you learn is there's no guarantee in life the speed with which you can be together with someone or or start a new job or move to a new city like it doesn't really matter I just think it's like if your heart's in it and you want to try then like you should try and you should try to be all in and and like be present in that relationship authentically and kids make it a little more serious because everyone always wants to protect their little like innocent hearts, but um, but again, I think because I'm like whispering,

17:05  
but

17:05  
I'm like, you guys are both women. I'm not worried. Yeah, I think I have some girlfriends who I think they're worried about introducing, you know, a new male partner to their kids, and I get that. I'm like, oh, but I kind of understand that. But for both of you, I'm like, yeah, no, they could. I mean, if I was like, I'm a mom. If I was Thoris, like I would see Jan's heart right away and her history and just her public presence and just the way you show up for people. And I think I would have known, like you know, this isn't going to be whatever happens to us. This is not an untrustworthy figure for my children.

17:36  
Yeah, yeah,

17:36  
yeah.

17:37  
Did I? No, thanks for saying

17:39  
that.

17:40  
Did I tell you guys about how you don't tell us

17:43  
anything anymore?

17:43  
Yes, Sarah.

17:44  
Well, we're we're doing our very best to see each other and maintain our long distance relationships

17:50  
here.

17:51  
But did I tell you guys about Cirque du Soleil?

17:53  
No. How did this

17:54  
go? Yeah. So so we went with Dan's. I don't even know

17:58  
what this is referring to. Like, yeah, we took Cirque du Soleil. What? What is?

18:02  
Yeah, I joined Cirque du Soleil. I'm now an acrobat slash podcaster. Yeah, we took the the girls with with his ex. Ooh, like it was wonderful. That's

18:12  
crazy. That's right. With his ex, Jesus. Yeah, it was wonderful anytime soon.

18:18  
And you know, I think I remember telling you guys that she mentioned to me like a couple months back, like I'm shy. I don't want you to think that I'm, you know, not trying to get to know you. I do want to get to know you. I'm just like a naturally shy person, and we had that little exchange. So yeah, like it got a little more, a little more talkative, a little more warm, you know, all of that. And like those little steps are great progress, I think. For

18:43  
yes, for everyone, for the kids especially. Yes, for to not be pitted against each other. Yeah, you know. So it sort of has such an adversarial relationship with her ex. You know, it's that's never going to happen for me.

18:58  
And then there's like you know moments when we're like doing a drop off or a pickup, where it's like just come into the house, and I still feel weird being like that's from Dan, not from her. And I'm like, well, I don't want to be in her face, right? Like those are the things that I still am I'm working through, but mostly because I want her to feel comfortable. Like I'm fine being uncomfortable. I mean, whatever. So yeah. Anyway, things are good, and I was going to tell you guys a crazy story from my walk in Midland at the cottage two days ago that I just I could not wait to tell you. Dan was refinishing the like front walkway at the cottage and helping my dad out with like some stone work, and so I went to walk the dogs while he got started, and I started waving at someone who I thought was Barb, like the neighbor at the cottage who I've talked about before. Well, it wasn't Barb, and I was waving hysterically at the wrong person. So when she got closer to me, I was like, "I'm so sorry. I thought you were someone else. She goes, "I recognize your voice. Are you on the gen?" Podcast in Midland, Ontario, and I'm like I am. So I want to say hello to Brenda, who who was like I heard that you and and you know your man have been up and down to the cottage and and she's like you're somewhere else on a different lake half the time right now aren't you? Anyway, Brenda and I did the second half of the walk together. We did end up seeing Barb as well, so it was like the three of us and all the dogs. She walks like over-I'm gonna say over 7k a day. Like, oh wow, good for her. Same, yeah, same. And she was just saying she had her she had her AirPods in, and she's like, "Yeah, I just listen to you guys and walk all the time. So she's like, "It's so cool to meet you, and I got her number in case we ever want to do a walk. She lives pretty like when I do a run at the cottage, she's like a perfect halfway point for a 5k Anyway, so hi to Brenda, nice to meet you, and what a small friggin' world

20:53  
it is. Such a small world, and and that you have such an identifiable voice. Both you guys do, like I would know you guys talking in a crowd of 2000 I would know your voice,

21:03  
and your voice.

21:04  
I I don't know if my voice is that you know distinct, but I just feel like it's like I don't know. This is kind of off topic, but listening to new music, like pop music on the radio, when when when we were we're actually going to have a conversation with Corbl Blund today, so I want you to stick around for that because he's going to be for the last like 20 minutes of this pod. Lots to talk about Cole being the obvious thing, but also music and how he feels about kind of industrial pop music or the stadium pop music. But anyway, there's a when you're talking about distinct voices, I can't tell a lot of these new girls apart. Like I, yeah, I is that unfair for me to say? Am I just being? There's a lot of production,

21:46  
right? So like, where your voice stands out at the, I think the front of production so well. I think a lot. There's just so much more production in music these days. I was going to say this about hip hop specifically as well. There's like a whole sort of subgenre of hip hop now called mumble rap, which has become very pervasive because it's very heavily produced and it is mumbly words. Like it's it's it's it's not as clear and distinct. And I was listening to a podcast, a music podcast, and they were discussing the difference in hip hop that I grew up in, the difference in the artists. You knew Jay Z from Nellie, you knew Nelly from you know an artist like Notorious B I G who sounded different than Tupac. Like so, the era I feel like of hip hop that I grew up in, I if I heard a song on radio, like like exactly, I knew who I the second I heard that that artist, I was like, that's that rapper, and they have everything. And so now when I hear, I don't know, I'm like honestly top

22:44  
10. I don't think all three of us would probably not be able to name those top 10. And I mean, it's why like yeah,

22:51  
it's why Drake gets to be the you know he's in the crosshairs of most rappers because I'll tell you he is a rare artist where you hear Drake and you're like you know that Drake, you hear Bad Bunny. I'm like that's Bad Bunny, and that's why they're that's why they're like top of their genre. I think so. Yeah, I agree with you, Jen. Like, I mean, I hear it a lot in hip hop. I think it's I think it's everywhere. I think it's just yeah.

23:10  
I'm I'm glad you're saying that because sometimes I just feel like, am I just being too old listening to music going? They all sound the same, and they they don't all sound the same. But I couldn't, you know. And I'm aware of so many of these new artists. Like I'm aware of them, but I don't know if I could pick them out of a crowd. Getting back to voices, I could pick you guys out talking, but you've also made a living for years speaking to people, and that timbre in your voices is so identifiable. So that doesn't surprise me, Sarah. That you know you have someone going. I think you're in my head right now. I'm listening to you on a podcast.

23:45  
This happened to me at work. So my my new job is at Sirius Radio. I'm not on the air. I'm I'm doing content production. But they do this thing where they send out an announcement that you're part of the team now. And so I was in the kitchen, and a woman came over because she heard my back was turned, but she heard me talking, and she was like, "You're Caitlin, and she's like, "I listen to you constantly on Chum, and then and then on the podcast. And she said, "I love you so much. I and she said, "I loved your voice, I loved your perspective. She was very complimentary. No, I didn't pay her to say all this in front of my new coworkers, and she said I named my daughter after you.

24:25  
Who is this from Sirius? Maybe it's someone I know. Okay, come

24:28  
on.

24:29  
Her name, I, I, if I recall, because this was a few weeks ago, I believe is Amy, and and she said I hadn't heard. This was funny to me. Obviously, like culturally, was not you know Caitlyn wasn't this like ubiquitous name that it is for perhaps you know my generation and she said I loved your name I loved when I heard it and so she's like I hope you don't find it weird but like I named my daughter Caitlin because it's the first time I've heard the name so much and it was the sweetest interaction you could ever imagine having and I did I'm. I always think to myself, "What a frigging amazing thing that you get to do, which is to like be in someone's ear, like to have them listen to you talk, is this like incredible thing that I feel really passionate about, and it was so nice. So yeah, I think

25:16  
you were going to say privileged. You feel privileged.

25:19  
Yes, that's what I meant. I'm like I gotta help her out

25:21  
here for a sec.

25:22  
Running out of words.

25:23  
Make sure you guys stay tuned for our conversation with Corb Lund because it's really interesting. You know, it's it's got Aaron Brokovich vibes to it. Let's put it that way. But also stay tuned for our midweek episode, which is going to be voice notes, and we love hearing from you guys, and you guys are finally starting to learn how to leave voice notes. Like we're really proud of you. Like I don't have to leave them anymore and pretend to be Clarice Monahan from Sudbury, and you know, and I did that a few times. I'm not going to lie. Hi, my name's Clarice. This question is for Sarah.

26:01  
Yeah.

26:01  
Why are you so cute? That's my question. But anyway, so stay tuned for that, and of course, Patreon is always. But yeah, Corblon is up next, so stick around for that conversation. We'll be right back. Today's guest has spent his career many many decades writing songs about the people, the places, and the spirit of Western Canada, and I am one of those people that has enjoyed that fact for many many years. He has become just as well known as an activist lately, with his "water not coal" campaign, we're going to talk about that. Fighting to protect Alberta's mountains, water, and the landscapes that have inspired so much of his music, and that have inspired so much for all of us. I mean, anyone that lives here, we love our mountains, we love our water, we love our nature. Everyone I know is an absolute hiking fanatic here. They're an outdoorsman, and we live here, and that's one of the main reasons we live here. Corblund, welcome to our little show. You have been on tour, and where are you today? I think I overheard you saying that you were back in Lethbridge.

27:18  
Yeah, I'm home in Southern Alberta. I just got back from Colorado.

27:21  
How is Colorado?

27:23  
It's fantastic. I tell people down there that it's much like Alberta. I tell them it's like Alberta without healthcare.

27:31  
Alberta without healthcare. Well, we're catching up to them, Corb. We're we're trying to be just like Colorado. What's it like for you and your band to go across the border? Do you guys run into any shenanigans, or how's that?

27:43  
You know, it's funny. We have not run into any shenanigans. I've I've crossed maybe 10 times since the latest administration has been in place saying saying aggressive things about Canada. But I I think the thing to remember probably about that. I'm just surmising, but I think that at least half the country down there, and more and more, I think, was kind of embarrassed by that stance. And in fact, it was funny because the first time I crossed into the states, it was coming back from England, and so like if I'm crossing, you know, at Sweetgrass, like if I'm crossing at the border in southern Alberta, if they if they decide they don't want to let me in, it's like okay, that sucks. I'll go back home. But if you're flying in from England, you're kind of stuck there. And at the beginning of this whole administration, there was a few stories of Canadians being like put in jail for weeks and stuff for not having their visa in order and shit like that. And so I was pretty worried. But when I landed in, it was in Raleigh, North Carolina. I had the most pleasant and the most welcoming border entry I've ever had in the states. So I suspect it was compensation for you know that you know half the country is not down with what's happening. It's funny because we we've developed a really a really great audience in the states. It's not massive, but everywhere we go, there's hundreds. It's not 1000s. It's oh some places it's 1000s, but it's it's many hundreds almost everywhere we go across the whole country, which is I'm pretty proud of that because we don't have a we're not a we're not a we've never been a like a radio band or or had a lot of media like my entire audience has been built up one show at a time for decades and and we have a really like we don't we don't have many casuals at our shows, especially in the states. Like if they're there, they're there and they know the words and they're buying the stuff and they're very committed. So it you know it's kind of cool because because I I feel like we've we've built that audience and they're very loyal and they're very they're very knowledgeable about music and it's it's pretty cool and in the West especially, like our strongest area in the U.S. goes from Montana all the way to Texas, basically all the all the cowboy states really. And as a songwriter, you'll appreciate this, Jan. Like it's tricky for Canadians to to it's it's tricky to maintain your identity and also be successful. The U.S. because you know a lot of us, a lot of we songwriters use you know place names as a big thing, right? If you put Fort Worth or Chicago or Los Angeles in a song, it has built-in resonance that everybody understands pretty much in the English-speaking world, right? But it's much harder to use Canadian references and have them not sound hackneyed or deliberate or you know what I'm saying, and so your choices are either to pretend you're from Nashville or else not have an audience. But I've I took a page from Tyson's book, and I didn't really do it on purpose. But once I realized it was working, I was happy about it. Like the thing is, for me, like Western culture, cowboy culture, and landscape stuff translates all the way down the Rockies, and they they totally understand what I'm talking about when I'm saying about the ranchy stuff. Roots,

30:47  
roots, your roots, where people are from.

30:50  
Yeah, and and that and that culture, parts of that culture go north north south, and so that's been that's been. I just fortunate that's my that happens to be my background, and so it translates. So that's we feel very home in in many ways in in Colorado or Montana or New Mexico or Texas Oklahoma.

31:05  
Well, I'm glad they let you in. I'm glad it's just like come on in, spend your money and like help our economy grow. You know, people are out going for dinner and coming to see a core blunt show, and that's that's that's impactful. You know, some people might be driving in and staying in a hotel or a motel, going for dinner, getting a babysitter-like it's all an economic win, you know. When musicians travel,

31:27  
it's funny because I'm not sure what visa you've used in the past, but we have the O-1 visa, which is fairly robust. Yes, like there's a P visa which you have to apply for every tour, which is a pain in the butt. The O visa is pretty much blanket access for four or five years, but the funny thing about it is that the name of the visa is-I think it's person of extraordinary talent. So it's very pompous. But I've had I've had border guards look at the thing and then look at me and look at the thing and they're like.

31:58  
Speaking of person of extraordinary talent, we're going to do something with you called fast friends. We want our audience that maybe aren't so familiar with you get to know you a little bit, and we're just going to start with a few quick questions. These are fun core. This before we start picking your brain about the end of the world and coal, coffee or whiskey, core blonde.

32:18  
Well, it depends on the time of day, right?

32:20  
I love that. That's your answer. That's all you need to say. Sunrise or sunset.

32:26  
I've seen the business end of the sunrise too many times. To so sun sunset for sure.

32:31  
Horse or truck?

32:34  
Horse.

32:36  
Good camping or glamping?

32:40  
Camping.

32:43  
You know, one day you'll glamp. One day you'll do it. What's one song you wish that you had written, Corb?

32:49  
Um, it's a bunch. There's there's there's an Ian Tyson song from the later part of his career. That's that part of his career is less well known. It's called La Primera, and it's a it's a it's a fascinating historical song about the the first horses that came to North America with the Spanish in the 1400s and it's it's really it's really and there's a second one by a guy named Tom Russell, which is about hanging Mexican horse thieves with their own hair. It's called the Sky Above the Mudblow, and that's those two are in that category. Those are in my top five songs. Period.

33:24  
What was the first concert you ever saw

33:26  
at the Lethbridge Sportsplex? I believe it was Honeymoon Suite with haywire openers.

33:32  
Oh God, that's amazing! And that's

33:36  
a whole slew of Brian Adams concerts after that.

33:40  
Well, you are in line with millions of other Canadians. Last question: Your favorite place in Alberta? Maybe it's a landmark or a favorite lake or a favorite mountain. Do you have a spot that's just like quintessentially? Yes, love. I mean, I'm

33:53  
kind of I'm kind of biased, but our our family ranch near near Carson is is my favorite. It's it's under the shadow of the Old Cheese Mountain.

34:01  
Love that, Caitlin. I'm going over to you. You can, you can do all the hard stuff.

34:06  
Well, a lot of our a lot of our listeners, they're avid readers. They love storytelling. Obviously, they listen to the podcast hosted by Jan. And I find with country music, there's a lot of you know at times literal or you know, very directly historical storytelling that goes on in songs, and I'm always wondering because I don't have a songwriter's brain. You know, when you go past something like you know a fence line or a horse, or like you said, like physical landscape, what do you kind of see in those things in like everyday life that inspires you to write a song? Because I just I feel like I just walk past and see it, don't think anything of it, and then I hear about it in a song, sometimes like a country song or a jan song, and go, "Oh yeah, I wish I noticed that.

34:48  
Yeah, for me, it's less. I mean, I do have some landscape that pops up in my songs, but usually the stuff that inspires my songs is is hearing people's stories. You know, like whether it's like I have a lot of stuff. It's family oriented, but but also just regional stories in my area, and not not some that aren't in my area, but but it's more hearing things from people than it is seeing objects.

35:11  
Okay, okay, because I find sometimes like I mean I guess maybe it wouldn't necessarily be always in your music, but like sort of the the country genre, some of the lyrics can feel literal, but there's obviously like an underlying story behind a lot of them.

35:24  
Yeah, the best ones have layers for sure.

35:26  
There's songwriting country, but there's a lot of stadium country happening too. And you know, sort of, how do you feel about the the popularity of it and how how big it's gotten in recent years?

35:36  
Yeah, official. I don't know, like Western Western culture flares up about every 1520 years. I can remember doing that with Urban Cowboy in the 70s, and then Garth in the early 90s, and Yellowstone now. So it's it's just always kind of a sine wave. But like, I mean, the country music. I'm not going to add my voice to the to the millions of people who want to dump on modern country, I don't think there's exceptions, of course. Sometimes someone pops through, like like Chris Stapleton, or

36:10  
yeah,

36:11  
and and so I feel the same about corporate country as I feel about corporate metal or corporate pop or corporate hip hop. Like it's it's not about the style so much as as the intention of the artist and the integrity of the artist and

36:24  
the

36:25  
degree to which they're not just being corporate shills. So you know, mostly the people on the radio in country are are selling you McDonald's as opposed to love the handmade boots, right?

36:35  
We should note for our listeners, Corb also used to be in a metal band called the Smalls. I was gonna say now that we talk about metal,

36:43  
yeah, but but I mean I will say though that people have been you know people have been saying country music is dead ever since the first drum kit appeared on the Grand Ole Opry in the '40s or whatever. So you know it's ever evolving and whatever. If people are, if it makes people happy, okay. Yeah, I mean, it's

37:04  
just interesting to see like an artist like Beyonce. You know, I guess like I'm not, you know, I'm I'm not that old. I'm an elder millennial, but I never thought I'd see an artist like Beyonce release a country album. I never thought I'd see like a like hip hop artist start to try their hand at country, and so that's sort of new to me, and I do find it surprising. And I always wonder, I'm like, does that does the success of that and the commercial viability of that then make it easier for you know an artist like Charlie Crockett to charge a lot more for his concert tickets and and and get you know butts and seats? But

37:34  
yeah, I'm a big fan of of crossing genres. A big fan. I don't particularly think that the Beyonce experiment was a successful one, but I respect the attempt. Like, there was a minute there where you had to say you love that record, or you're, you know, or you were smeared with all kinds of things. I, you know, I give her credit. I'm a huge Beyonce fan, and I just don't, I don't think that particular experiment hit. But I mean, I've had artistic experiments that missed too, and that's fine. I think I'm a big fan of mixing genres for sure.

38:01  
How do you feel about AI being involved in music? I just signed something universal. I've been with them for like 30 plus years, and about a month ago, my office came to me and just said, "We need you to take a look at this. We've gone through most of the garbage, but it comes down to two issues: is that the streamers want to be able to a use the music so that listeners can produce versions of your music. They can change baselines, blah blah blah. It's an interactive part that is coming with Spotify, Amazon, iTunes. It's coming. It's going to be here, and it's like, do you want to you know be do you want to be monetized? Do you want to monetize that option? And also with your voice, we highly recommend you don't sign away any rights to your voice whatsoever, so that they can manipulate it, have you sing "Yank My Doodle It's a Dandy" or whatever the hell, right? So I did sign off on the musical part of people changing a bass line in "Could I Be Your Girl" or or adding keyboard parts or making a dance mix, but I'm just wondering if you have feelings about that. I don't know. Like I did sign off on that part of it, but I didn't sign off on having vocal manipulation or having them use a likeness of my voice. That I just said a flat out no to. But it's here. It's coming.

39:17  
I feel like I'm no longer familiar with the world we live in, so I don't know. Like it's there's so many things that are fucked. Can I can I say fucked?

39:26  
Yeah. Oh fuck yeah.

39:28  
There's there's some I don't know. That sounds gross to me. I don't I don't mean your decision, but I mean the whole concept sounds sounds gross and weird. And I mean I I don't know. I just I I live in a weird little musical bubble of my own. I I just listen to old shit, and I I don't know. It sounds it sounds dystopian.

39:48  
It is. I I was like, what now? What is that? What's going on?

39:53  
Yeah, I think I think my overall my overall comment on on AI developments would be that I would hope. Maybe I'm naive. I would hope that the one thing that probably won't change is having a human in a room of other humans expressing themselves, and hope and people willing to pay a couple of bucks to see that. Apparently, the way that we have to sacrifice our water supplies for the data centers to power this stuff is a problem.

40:23  
Yeah, huge problem. I smell the sick, right? Yeah, let's let's talk about that. Advocacy obviously has been a big thing for you, and and Canada does have something like 20% of the world's fresh water supply. It's an awful lot of water that we that we have here, and we have it for a reason, over the last few years, you've become very well known. Maybe, maybe for something you don't want to be well known for, but I'm. I think it's really cool how you've stepped forward, stuck your neck out, and taken a lot of vitriol from a lot of big corporate powerhouse people that try and squish you down. But it is about the coal sort of movement in Alberta. Maybe you could speak to that and where this started. There has been coal mined in Alberta over the years, over the decades, and there's new players in the game now that are coming in and talking about really, really big projects that would be absolutely detrimental, leveling mountains using water, all the bullshit that comes after you do extract coal out of the ground. But maybe you can speak to how you got involved and where that started.

41:32  
Yeah, I've spent 30 plus years in music, I guess, in the public eye to some degree, and having never spoken about political issues deliberately because I I have a lot of friends that are very active. I respect that. My decision has always been to stay out of that stuff, partly because I have a mixed audience and I want to reach them all. And I think I think this might sound a little a little hippy dippy, but I think music sometimes art has a role to play in our lives that that transcends the sturm und drang of daily bullshit and current events. So I think it's really healthy for people to have an artistic outlet that's about higher ideals that don't necessarily, you know, comment constantly on the news. And that's always been my approach. And and then five, six years ago, I guess, 2020 a friend of a friend approached me through our common connection, and she she ranches west of Nanton, and there's a bunch of cattle producers out there, like generational ranchers who who whose places were under threat by strip mining due to the rescinding of the 1976 Lohe coal policy by the Kennedy government, without any without any mandate or public consultation, they did it very quietly, and I didn't know anything about it. And I was sympathetic because we have, like the ranch I mentioned earlier, our place is down in southwestern Alberta. We've had it since 1902, and you know the Blackfoot took care of it before that, and we we spent you know every as a kid I wrote every inch of that plays with my grandfather and every day he would comment about the creek level and the quality of how how murky or how clear the creek was and how how high it was compared to last year and also his soil health so the the idea of of being a steward of you know generational land has been ingrained in me since I was a kid. So anyway, our place in Carson is not threatened by these mines. But when I heard that other families had their places jeopardized by these potential mines, I was sympathetic. And so I spent about six weeks because it was during COVID, so I wasn't touring. So I spent about six weeks educating myself, and I I met with as more more pro coal people than anti coal people. Frankly, I met with government ministers and and coal CEOs and the coal lobbyists, and I did a ton of reading and and meetings, and I just I didn't really have a dog in the fight, and I came to the conclusion that was a really terrible idea for not only for the water and the ranch land, but also economically, it's a terrible idea. It's going to cost the taxpayers brilliance in the end. You know, having said that, I haven't been politically active my whole career. This one seemed egregious enough and important enough and close to home enough to my values that I felt I should speak about it. So, yeah, I've I've six years ago I spoke out about it, and yeah, I got I got a lot of crap from a lot of people, and you know what? I've had a lot of crap from the left as well for not doing enough, which is annoying. But you can't you can't win Corb and not aligning myself with any political party or any political movement, which is actually how I feel. I'm kind of a pragmatist. I don't I don't really align with any of the parties, so I'm also not anti-resource. Like I understand that we. It seems like you have to be like an extremist on one side or the other. Either no resources or nuclear plants in Baff National Park. It's like I'm neither. It's just that I understand we need we need things for 8 billion people, and everything we do has a cost. Agriculture has a cost. Gas has a cost.

45:00  
Your running shoes have a cost, but every everything that we every one of these issues has to be looked at individually on a you know cost benefit basis on a risk reward basis. And the coal thing makes zero fucking sense. Like it's almost exclusively being mined by these or wants to be mined by these Australian coal companies, and this woman named Gina Rinehart is behind a lot of it. She's a billionaire. She's a trip.

45:25  
I think recently, what has really circulated in the news on social media, at least from from my standpoint, is the whole debacle behind the petition, the hundreds of 1000s of of signatures that were gathered that you know our premier decided was not timely. It wasn't handed in properly. Whatever the the legal ramifications, like what the hell's going on with that? Obviously, Alberta's are Albertans are outraged.

45:56  
I explained why it's a bad economic idea. The worst part about this is these mines are right at the headwaters of our rivers. Like the Grassy Mountain Mine is near Crossness Pass, at the headwaters of the Old Man River, which supplies drinking water and agricultural water for 200,000 people downstream. The Blackstone Project, which is also named in our petition specifically, is at the headwaters of the North Saskatchewan, which is where Evanston gets its drinking water. And coal mines almost always, in every case across the planet, contaminate the groundwater with with with contaminants. The one everyone's heard about is selenium, but there's a number of them. And there's no way that's practical economically to to solve this problem. Like tech mining in BC, they mine a lot of this stuff. They do. That's the thing. You don't have to go to Russia or Brazil to find out the results. You just have to go to BC, and the Elk Valley has been doing this kind of mining for decades, and they're being sued by Montana groups for contaminating their water hundreds miles downstream. Some of the municipal water wells in Sparwood and Fernie, for example, can't use their well water anymore because of contamination. It looks like a moonscape. There's airborne contaminants. It's just a terrible, terrible idea. So you got a terrible idea for the environment and our water. Most specifically, our water. We're in a seven-year drought in Southern Alberta, and they're going to contaminate our water. Not only that, they lied about needing quantity of water. They swore up and down. Northback company behind Grassy Mountain swore up and down. They don't need any extra water. They just applied for a massive water license. So in the middle of a drought, where we have a multi-billion-dollar food processing industry, Lethbridge, which needs clean water from the Oldman River, they want to put a coal. It's just ridiculous. It's ridiculous, and I understand everything has a cost, but the cost on this is so high. And the last point I'll make about this is that, for my conservative friends, what I always say is that if you care about the taxpayer as much as you claim to, this is a golden opportunity to save the taxpayer billions. Because I stake my reputation on the fact that at the end of this, whether it's 20 years, 30 years, there'll be a huge cleanup left to the taxpayer. It always happens. Our kids are going to be paying billions to clean up this mess that they're going to make. So okay, so I've made the environmental case. Now let's move on to the condition.

48:03  
Yeah, it is. I mean, obviously there is a lot of outrage, and I think one thing that you've done so well, Corb,

48:09  
is

48:09  
brought attention to something. And like you said, this was done. These licenses, everything was lifted from kind of this call it an embargo, if you will, on coal mining, and it was done very clandestine underneath. You know, nobody really knew. All of a sudden, this stuff's been lifted. We're getting bids from, like you said, the Australian people. There's deals happening with China, and Albertans are going, "What? What now? So they would have loved for this to happen without anybody knowing about it. But you have really been instrumental in in bringing attention to something that affects all of us, and it's very generational. Yeah. So kudos to you for sticking your neck out, because a lot of people wouldn't.

48:52  
There's been repeated polls on this, and 70 to 80% of Albertans don't want it. So here I am, and you know the government's position on this over and over and over, and she just did it a couple days ago. Smith is to say, "Oh, sorry, we've heard you, Alberto. Sorry, we'll fix it. And they pretend to fix it, and they lead these huge loopholes. So a year ago in June in Fort McLeod, I was at a town hall based on this issue, and ministers were there, and Smith was there, and it was rowdy. It was very, very rowdy and anti coal and pro water, and at the end of it, she said, "Well, if you guys if you guys really feel strongly, you should have a citizens initiative for a petition about it, and so we did. And I got a bunch of lawyers and and I got a bunch of people together. So we we launched this petition in December 25 and within a week or two, they had somehow changed the rules and retroactively canceled our petition, and we had to reapply. And I don't know how that works, but but we had to reapply. And they've they've changed the rules a bunch of times. And you know, I had a meeting with Smith may 11. It took me years to get a meeting with her about it. She just said on the news. The other day, we're happy to work with corpse people. That's bullshit. They haven't given us a meeting until she hasn't given me a meeting until month and a half ago. But in the meeting, I said number one, all I want to ask you is that if we achieve the number, that you won't mess with their question because 200,000 people would have signed off on this, as well as the collections Alberta. She wouldn't commit to that without a bunch of caveats,

50:21  
what happens now? So all the signatures that were collected, the months and months of work on the ground, is nothing that they're going to consider. Is that my understanding

50:31  
at this point? But like I said, we're meeting with a lot of lawyers as we speak, like actually right this second, to determine whether or not we have a good judicial review case, and a lot of people think that we do. So if we do, we we we may be having them have a judge decide this in in court, which will be good because all the stuff will be aired out in the public, and they can see how the process was done. And another thing I'll say is that Elections Alberta did in the end verify 170-2000 That's almost 10% of the of the turnout for the last election. So this is no longer Corb and his friends yelling at the clouds. That's a huge number of people that got off the couch in all kinds of weather, found a canvasser, signed off the thing, brought their ID, brought their utility bill, approved their address, whatever hoops they made us jump through, and we still got essentially 10% of the voting turnout last election. That's a lot of people. I would say to the premier, if you actually want to work with us, that's good news. Number one, put a place a moratorium to stop all coal activity until this is resolved. And number two, in terms of what we'll accept, we made it real simple. It's all I would refer to the wording of our question in our petition. We want no, we want legislation banning any new coal mining activity in the eastern slopes, including Grassy Mountain and including Blackstone. Sorry to rant.

51:42  
No, no, that was what my question was going to be: is what do you want them to do in the interim? And you just answered my question exactly. We are at the point where we have to start saying goodbye, which is unfortunate because this is an issue we could talk about forever. I'm going to throw this over to you, Caitlin, because we always ask our guests, and this is perfect for this conversation that we've just had because it feels heated. I feel furious, like I feel so frustrated, and I admire you so much. And I'm with you 1,000,000,000% I want you to know that I've been asked about the coal stuff over the years ad nauseum, and I've always just said I'm with Corb. I'm with the petitioners. I don't want to see it happen. I'm kind of doing a very similar thing, not certainly not on that scale, but with live horse export in this Canada, where they're sending giant draft horses from Alberta to Japan. But anyway, I admire anyone who sticks their neck out for a really good cause, and you give a shit, and it's not easy, anyway. Caitlin, over to you.

52:43  
We try to close the show with kind of like a mental health question for each of our guests, and because we know that, like you know, like all of us, everyone listening is struggling with the news and the inundation of all of these topics that make everyone justifiably irate. So, what do you do when you want to unplug? How do you take care of of yourself and and your mental health?

53:08  
I read a lot and I listen to Slayer.

53:12  
Love that

53:13  
music. I'm being funny. Well, I'm not being I'm not being funny. Yeah. But but music music to this day, as cliche as it sounds, I still still love it. Learning new guitar licks and taking vocal lessons and writing songs, and that's what I do. It is

53:27  
inspiring to talk to you. I am very optimistic. I think we can absolutely be impactful when we get together and when we exercise our democratic right to vote on these issues, and to get involved with petitions, and for all of you guys listening, when you have an issue that comes across your table and you see somewhere you can sign this position, take the time, give them their email if it's something you really care about. Corb certainly can't do it single-handed, and Corbl Lund has been our guest today. He's a brilliant songwriter and artist, and he is known far and wide for his amazing story-telling capabilities and his melodic, whimsical, kick-ass country and Canadiana style of music that is totally his. You are in a class all your own, and I know so many people that have worked with you and talk about what a great guy you are. Russ Broom being one of them, and just sings your praises. So thanks for doing what you're doing, and you set a great example for, you know, using your voice. Like art is power, and art is politics. So this has been the Jan Arden podcast. Caitlin Green, Sarah Burke. As always, many thanks to our listeners, and come and see us on Patreon after this. We'll see you next time totally do.

54:40  
Thanks, guys.