Bif Naked: Save The Rage for The Stage (+ RIP Jane Goodall)

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 well, we recorded this podcast on Monday, and since that time, we've lost one of the world's last great protectors, one of the world's last great protectors. Indeed, when I'm gone, I want to make absolutely sure that everything I've worked for all my life will be able to carry on. You know, when you get closer to the end, wherever the end is, there's

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so much wrong with the world today, and there's so much need for a message of hope, because if we all lose hope, then we may as well give up. And we know the world's in a mess. We know we've harmed the environment, destroying the forest, polluting the atmosphere, polluting the ocean. You know about all that, and you know we must take action now. Together, we can. Together, we will. Janne Goodall passed away. It's just been one of those things that I have really feared. To be honest, I would be remiss if we did not include in this week's podcast some words about Janne, what she meant to me. Dr Goodall, of course, meant so much to the entire rest of the planet. She has been part of my life since I was a very little girl. Janne passed away at 91 years old. It comes as no surprise you guys, that Janne died during one of her many tours where she lectured to people young and old about hope and about what we could do to make a better planet. But yeah, she was out there doing that work. Some people find this peculiar, but I feel that I was put on this planet with a mission. I actually think all of us were put on this planet with a role to play, even though some people never discover what that role is. And so, because I believe, like today, my mission is to give people hope, because if we lose hope, we're doomed. We do nothing, we fall into apathy. And so I keep going, because that's my mission. And I can't give up, can I? But anyway, yeah, six or seven years old, I have been following Dr Goodall. Of course, she started as a very young woman in her 20s. Her mother went with her to Africa, where Dr Leakey, a famous, famous scientist, just thought she would be the right person to observe animals in the wild. And Janne spoke about, she said she would have been happy, you know, documenting the movements of a little mouse, but she just happened across a group of chimpanzees and spent a great deal of her life studying their behavior and passing that on to the scientific community, who, of course, a bunch of guys, a bunch of men, disputed and really didn't give her the credit she was due, until many decades later, after she had done all the work on chimpanzee behavior and how they acted in communities and how they fought each other and sometimes murdered each other and just their lives. It was unbelievable the work she did. And then, of course, as the years unfolded, Janne got much more into the planet, keeping it green, keeping it alive. She has really seen the decline of dozens, if not hundreds, of species of animals that have gone extinct in the last 50 years at alarming rates. She has just been incredible. I had an opportunity twice in my life, in the last three and a half years, to join Janne at her two of her lectures that she did, speaking to those things about hope, about what we can do to make the world a better place, eat differently. And just for a brief moment here, we wanted to throw it back to April 2024 when Jann interviewed Janne Goodall for the second time, and she was just over the moon telling us about the experience. I went into her dressing room, and she was she's 91 years old, and she was having little crackers and little nuts and just going over what she was going to do for the evening, but still being in her presence is just like I sat down on a couch beside her, and she really is celebrating the roots and shoots program that she does. She's she's talking about, obviously, the environment. She's inspiring people about hope. Obviously, we're living in times where we have very right wing parties that are literally telling us we're going to dig more, we're going to start coal mining. We're going to, you know, break the crust in the bottom of the ocean. We're going to mine gold or whatever precious metals off the fucking moon. There's some really unhinged ideas out there, obviously, the thought of drilling into the moon and breaking up a.

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Moon that's responsible for our gravitational pull. Human life would not exist without our little moon going like there's people just doing reckless, reckless things. It's amazing being in a room with someone with an energy that is otherworldly, the way people respond to her, the requests they get for people to meet Janne. People that want to give things to her, they want to talk to her. They just want to be around her. I would say it's almost like a religious experience, in a way. I would liken it to what Confucius or Jesus or Buddha or Muhammad or any of the prophets had, because they're peaceful warriors. You don't see her running around swearing or doing things or being aggressive. She's a peaceful war. She's like Gandhi. She speaks through sensibility. She speaks through integrity and intelligence. It's so important to realize there can never be world peace until we can learn to live in harmony with nature as well as with each other, we all must work to slow down climate change and loss of biodiversity, because, for example, if streams and rivers dry up, new wars will be fought over water. So on this peace day, think about the actions you can take towards making this a kinder, more compassionate and more peaceful world. And she's willing to sit down at a table, whether it's Trump or what she spoke to Trump a little bit how dangerous he was, how dangerous those kinds of politics were. And you know, when you have a person that is, you know climate change be damned. And we know how real it is. And when you literally have men that are saying it's not real Anyway, she's one of the most special humans, really, of our century. She's been alive as long as all of us have. I don't know a world without Janne Goodall. Janne is the last of her kind. I asked her about mortality. I asked her about, you know what's what happens? Do you think about dying, there has to be moments. And I know at 63 I think about my mortality. You're a chicken. I am a chicken. Well, I'm not that chicken. I mean, I think it's, it's another part of the adventure of being a person. But

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if, if that affects decisions that you make, you you speak about not you know, having there's more time behind you than there is ahead of you that might

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much more. Does

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it bother you at all? Once again, that whole idea of fear of the unknown, or what that might mean? No, I think it's my next great adventure, because when you when you die, there's either nothing, well, that's finished, but we wouldn't know anything about it, right? Or there's something, and I happen to believe there's something because of experiences I've had, because I've read every book there is about, you know, near death experiences, and I can't think of anything more exciting than discovering what that something is. And so she's going to keep going until she dies. I said, you know, is the roots and shoots she goes. That's the most important thing to me, and it's programs for young people. There's 75 chapters. I believe all over the world. She is optimistic. She believes in people. She believes in young people. You know, hope is a verb. You know, I'm not going to harp on about eating more plants, but Janne was a vegan most of her life, when she realized what industrial farming was doing to animals by the billions every year, she never touched meat again, and that's a testament to her commitment to how to make those small changes every day that we live. We make an impact on the planet, and we can choose what sort of impact we make. And people come to me depressed and saying, well, the world's a mess, and you know, there's nothing I can do about it. I'm just one person. We have a saying, think globally, act locally. It's the wrong way around. If you think globally, you cannot but be depressed and feel helpless. But I say to them, think of your own community. What can you do there? What do you care about? Start doing something to make it better. Get other people to help you. You'll see you make a difference. That makes you feel good, then you want to do more, then you inspire more people. But yes, it was one of the, really the highlights of my career, to meet Janne. It was one of the most

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intimidating. She was tiny person, but so formidable. She was someone who filled the room with grace and strength and power and this quiet,

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mighty bravery that just permeated every corner of the room. There was such a reverence about her, the people that worked with her. The first time I went into a room to meet her, I really just wanted to go down on.

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Knees and throw my arms around her legs and thank her for being such an inspiration in my life. Anyway, I just had to make a few comments about Dr Janne Goodall the impact that she has had on an entire globe, probably one of the most renowned human beings on the planet. She really is known in every corner of the globe for the work she did, quietly, steadfastly, with a determination that you just don't see in people. She said, it doesn't take much to become a difficult woman. You know, you don't have to do much to become a difficult woman. That's why there are so many of us. I always love that one, and I am paraphrasing there anyway. I hope you do something this weekend, some small thing, you can dedicate your time to, maybe having a plant based meal, or planting a tree, planting some perennials for your garden next year. You know, little things be hopeful. And I think Janne Goodall would appreciate any gesture of goodwill towards the planet. We can make a difference. Collectively, imagine 8 billion people doing small things to make changes that will profoundly affect the way this earth breathes in and out, because this planet has a heartbeat and she's listening to us, and she feels us pattering around about her outer crust. And the trees hear us. The animals know we're all so interconnected. So let's, let's renew our commitment to do things a little differently and to make those changes. Anyways, Janne Goodall, we salute you at the Jann Arden podcast. We love you. You are beloved by millions and millions, billions of people, and you will be missed. Like I said, one of the world's last great protectors has passed away at the age of 91 and so I couldn't let the show publish this week without me saying a few words about my hero and a hero for all of us, of course, rest in peace. Janne Goodall, we have learned so much from you, and we are lucky to have shared this planet with you. Safe travels. Fly well, my friend, and we shall meet again.

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I am indeed Jann Arden, coming to you from the trees in spring bank, Alberta. I am joined by Caitlin green Sarah Burke in their Toronto homes respectively. And today, we have a really amazing, amazing woman with us who has been a friend of mine. We're well into our third decade, and I'm just going to make her sit through this rather lengthy intro, because this woman has done it all, and she has done it with a unique sense of self, a whole shitload of determination and a steadfastness that is only found in women exactly like her, which is one in a billion. On our podcast today, we are joined by the one and only Biff naked punk rock icon, and we're going to talk about that because I get that a lot too. You know Jann Arden, punk rock icon? No, I don't. She is a brilliant hit maker, a wonderful, wonderful songwriter all around force of nature. She is one of the kindest, most supportive people I've ever met in my life. And you'll remember unforgettable singles like, I love myself today. I want to love myself today, like multiple times, if that's if that's possible. Space man, like an unbelievable video. All you 90s kids out there watching

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us on YouTube, you will remember the space man video. We're going to talk about making videos today as well. Biff naked. She's nodding, I think, I think she is and smiling. You really did define an era, and you have paved the way for women in Canada, in Canadian rock and Canadian punk. Her brand new film, Biff naked, a documentary just premiered at the Calgary International Film Festival, and I was there with Caitlin, and we absolutely loved it. It was an amazing, magical night. It's coming soon to super channel. She's going to tell us about some other dates that are coming. Dates that are coming up beyond music. She's also also, on top of everything, an acclaimed actor and speaker. She's continuing to inspire audiences worldwide. And thank you. Thank you for joining us today. Biff naked, hello and welcome to the Jann Arden podcast. Oh my goodness. Wow, wow. Well, wow, yeah. Caitlin and I were at the documentary at Sif at the Calgary International Film Festival. So fun. Eventually they made it. Thank you, Sarah, we got lost. Biff. We went to the wrong theater and then, but we, we finally found you. Tell me what this experience of doing a documentary and looking at your life for two hours has been like, has been quite the journey. Oh my gosh. Well, I have to say that working with all of the people that I worked with was a joy. Working with SCORE G and Pollyanna, Hardwick, brown, Adam and Yaz and the crew and.

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Chase, and everyone the crew is from Alberta. Scorji Productions is from Alberta, super channels from Alberta, like, I mean, you know, so it made sense, everyone at Sif was amazing. And of course, I've had the same manager since I was 21 years old, Peter Carroll. Making the documentary, took us to France and took us to Mexico and took us all over Canada, and to be able to share my story was

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humbling, of course, but, you know, they just were so tender.

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The way they

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told my story, they got footage I never knew existed. It was crazy seeing that club footage of you and yeah, and your trajectory, and how much, how many obstacles that you overcame, how many obstacles that you, you and Peter overcame, and how much people don't understand. You know, they see this polished, successful person, the videos, the tours, they have no idea, really, of what goes on for a young artist like yourself coming up through the ranks, and the rejection and the shit that you face from people that just don't want you to get to where you're going to but this documentary captures your heart and Caitlin and I sat there and, you know, drank our drinks and ate our popcorn and looked at people around us that were teary eyed for a good deal of this documentary. So I encourage everyone to go see it. You spoke to seeing that old footage, and I want to know what that made you feel like, I cry.

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I cry a lot because, you know, there's a lot of different different feelings about surviving and not just surviving cancer. Of course,

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you know, because they do talk about survivors guilt for people

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you know when you survive things in your life, whether it is

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health crises or trauma, but as a person who is in the arts and in the performing arts, you you survive things that maybe sometimes Your mentors don't have an opportunity to survive, and you you kind of, you keep going, and you keep trucking along. And there's a tenacity and a determination that enables you, perhaps, to survive longer than other people. You're willing to starve longer, sometimes than some of your peers. And you know, there's, I guess, you know, I was very fortunate to have someone like Peter championing my cause all these years. And you know, I talk about how when I fall down,

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you know, I I kind of pick myself up, but when I couldn't pick myself up, Peter grabbed me by the shirt collar and keep running. You know, when I couldn't, and that's really the truth. And you know, to have a manager and a business partner be able to really keep going with you, it's really remarkable. And even playing with with Doug fury and with Chico and Miss O'Malley, and you know, to be in the trenches on some of these, on some of these tours, and you know, we really, you know, and you know as a touring artist, even you know over the years, with, with guys like Russell and all the different trials that you go through. Oh yeah, people you travel with for decades. I'm going to hand it over to Caitlin, because we we enjoyed the documentary together. And, you know, it's funny when you sit and watch, you know a friend, you and I have been friends for many years. We kind of sat there and went, fuck, this is really good. Thank you. Yeah, there's so much pressure, almost like, on the audience too, when you're at a when you're at a premiere, like you really want to like it, and you don't know what you're in for, and it's like the true story of someone's life. And I grew up watching your music videos, like knowing your music, but I didn't know a lot of the stories of your life. Me neither. I also, I mean, I'm not doing anything to do with it now, but like, I went to school for documentaries like, that's what I studied when I was in in college, and I absolutely loved it. I thank you. I thought that the the narrative, the relationships, like, you're such a compelling figure, and, my God, you are just like rooting for you from the start. And that is really like, that is a unique quality to possess in being the subject of a documentary. And even, like all the little details, like your handwritten drawings are featured all through the through the film, and there are just so many really nice touches. And sometimes, like when there's documentaries, they can veer into, like, talking.

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Head territory where you're not always super engaged. And I think that the combination of the found footage and then your narration and then the relationship with Peter, I just was like, I was like, This is fucking really good. Thank you. I'm so happy. Thank you. And again, I have to say that it's the entire team behind the film. It was the labor of love for everyone. And I just, you know,

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they're a family. That may have been the first time Caitlin has ever sworn on this podcast, just so we're aware.

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Wow, I sat here quite dumbfounded.

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I really did love it. And so, yeah, I mean, and also she did. And in earnest, in earnest, she was like Jann, that was I thought it was great. And I certainly you know, you go there on so many vulnerable parts of your life and pieces of your story that, like you said, it would be very important to have this amazing team that sort of handle things delicately. And certainly you want, as the audience, to feel as though the subject who you're rooting for is being handled delicately, and that they're not taking advantage of anything, that they're not exploiting these things that could be click baity, that it's being dealt with in a tasteful way. And I appreciated that you've been, I won't spoil it for anyone, but you've been through a lot of trauma. What I really liked is you're funny. It highlights your resilience. You know you're you're surviving, but you're kind of saying, like, I'm going to go through these dark times and kind of come out the other side. So even though there were these dark moments, I walked away from it being like, yeah, kind of like, screw these bad things that happen in life, you're still going to keep carrying forward. So I'm just wondering what was it like for you to have a documentary about your whole life and to talk about things like, you know your birth mother, like your birth mother was in this for crying out loud, like, what is that like for you to witness?

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It was amazing. My adoptive parents sent me to meet my birth mom as a gift for my 21st birthday,

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and I found her because I went behind their back and looked for her with the help of a social worker in Winnipeg, and I wrote letter after letter to the Canadian High Commission in New Delhi.

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You know, I was convinced when I was a child that my birth mom was Sophia Loren,

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my poor mother, because I was just convinced she had to be all around and, you know, of course, she wasn't. And she lived in Wasaga beach at this time. And I, you know, I have a half brother and a half sister and and I've had a great relationship with my first mom, but of course, I didn't live near them, so I had to rely on touring, and I saw them every time I came through over the years. And now I live in Ontario, so it's easy to have this great relationship with them. So it was wonderful to have her interviewed for the documentary, but it's hard for me to watch her interview. It makes me cry every time I see it, yeah, and, and she's just, it's so fun to to know her. And a lot of our mannerisms are the same.

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A lot of our sense of humor is the same. And, and it's, it's just, it's a lot of fun to have a relationship with her. You were one of the lucky people that were able to have a relationship with a birth parent. A lot of times people don't find them, or a lot of times either one or the other child or parent chooses not to make that connection. Yes.

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What do you attribute your tenacity to? I mean, we were kind of laughing and cringing a bit when you spoke to running away from home, from from your adoptive parents at a very, very young age, and thinking, I'm going to make something of myself, and we're going to get to Toronto. And we're Can you tell that story? Because it is riveting and it is it's really goddamn scary, and things could have been very, very different for your life. Biff, so can you just tell us a bit about that story without giving too much away? Well, you know the thing about and I do talk about it in the memoir IBI kiss. And, of course, I it has to be condensed a little bit. And, you know, Harper Collins was pretty fantastic. But, you know, things are a little bit edited, of course, for otherwise, it would have been, you know, 200,000

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page book.

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So I would have read that book. I just want you to know I would have read a 200,000 page Yeah, and there's a lot of stuff that had to be edited out of the book. Otherwise it would have been rated times a million.

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You know, I don't mean to say anything, but, but anyway, the thing about us running away from home, it was a different era and very.

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Very, very lucky that we were kids that didn't have smartphones, we didn't have Snapchat, and we didn't have,

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you know, the there was no dark web when we were teenagers that ran away from home. Thank goodness. You know, there was only Polaroids. I'm just gonna say it like that, all right, you know, but we did run away from home, and these,

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you know, these kids in malls, they recruited, you know, they didn't call it human trafficking back then. They didn't call it that. They just called it normal, normal pimps, if you will. And they would have these kids recruit other kids for these rings. And, you know, Toronto is not unique as far as a city that had these problems,

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you know, and it's really, it's tough, and a lot of girls are not as lucky as me

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that were able to transcend what could have been a very, very violent and terrible situation.

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I don't know why I was so lucky, but I dedicated my first album to Norman Davis, the Toronto cabbie that saved our lives. He saved our butts. You know, he really did to backtrack a bit you you were in a cab going to meet the people that you had been recruited for? Is that safe to sort of frame the your story that way? These adult guys who were, that was their job. They were, they were working, and they, they got a hold of us, two girls who were runaways. They knew we were runaways, and they got us in the vehicle. And they were, they were basically driving us to a motel to turn us out. End of story, like, right away, right away. They got a hold of us and we were going, and you kind of started figuring that out. You and your pal, yeah, and they told us, you know, we have, we have weapons. You're working. End of story. We were like, where's the meatball sandwich that we thought we were going to get. I know, God, we're hungry for God's sakes. Give us a pop. So naive, we were like, What are you talking about? And and so luckily,

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they were dumb enough, not savvy, to get out of the vehicle and leave us alone with the driver who was just really driving. And we just said, listen, driver, get us out of here, you know, just get us out of here. We don't know these guys. We're runaways. We don't know these guys. Get us out here. And the poor driver, you know, he could have been fired. He could have said, No, you know, whatever, we could have just got out of the car and ran, you know, what? We were afraid of, these guys. He had guns. We didn't want to chase us, and he just was, like, very irritated,

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but nonetheless, he threw his car into drive and drove, drove us away. And then he, you know, basically pulled into a 711 got us cigarettes, which was like gold,

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and got us a coffee, and we just sat there and cried and just went with him. And we could have ran, we could have got out of his car and ran away, but we didn't. We didn't have anywhere to go. We had nothing. We had no money. We had nothing, no ID. We had a knapsack full of maxi pads. That's all we took from home. Maxi Pads like idiots. A Maxi Pad is a handy thing to have when you're running away then from the local bus station. He made us call our parents from his apartment. He made us craft dinner, and he drove us to the Greyhound station in the morning and took up a collection and bought us our bus tickets home to Winnipeg and sent us home, and I dedicated my first record to him,

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in my little hand lettering, to Norman Davis, the Toronto cabbie. Do you think he's out there? Biff, we've looked for him in the past. I had one show I actually did at the harbor front center, and somebody said that they thought that they knew who he was, but we never, never did find him. In fact, then in the 90s and stuff, you know, the internet per se. But yeah, he said he really did. I thought he was a guardian angel. He saved our lives. He wanted nothing from us.

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Caitlin spoke earlier about just how compelling you were as a the focus of this film, and how much you carried it. We both loved the intro, just you kind of speaking to camera, and just how it kind of back, and then we were in this world, this punk world, this music world, for a long time. I know Caitlin and Sarah both have questions about that, but your musical career, and I do really want to focus on that, because I was glad that the film talked about your harrowing things, talked about things that you endured, talked about, you know, those moments in pretty much every young woman's life. Music You talk about saving your life, and I think that's an important sort of theme in our.

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Show of how creativity changes us, saves us, picks us up, moves us forward. And that certainly was the case in your life. Music, music, music, writing, writing, writing down those harrowing thoughts and putting them on vinyl. And it still does. It really still does. And I think moving forward, even now, I think that I feel like I'm a mid, mid career. Yes, you are. My god, yeah, I feel like I'm mid career. And it's funny because now I look to

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artists like Tina Turner, and I always remind myself that when she was in her 50s, she started playing stadiums, you know, and I never forget that, because I just think that

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now more than ever, my audience has been growing up with me, and now they're growing older with me. And I think, okay, so, you know, if I if I have these girls coming up to me after shows going, you know, when I was 23

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you you gave me a voice. And then I think, Okay, well now you know, these girls are 53

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and so, you know, now I feel like, okay,

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well, now it's even more important, because now you know, there's still a feeling of being left behind, or feeling like, Okay, well, we all felt like a community of weirdos. When we were 23 we didn't feel like we fit in anywhere. And so now we're aging weirdos. So now what you know now, what are we supposed to do, you know? And so it's now. It's more important than ever to keep writing those songs that are about feeling isolated or feeling, you know, lonely, you know. And that was part of it, you know. And it was cathartic to write it. But what was more important was to perform it. The girls have so many unique and they're younger than me too. So I think their idea of your career, and their perception of your career is different than mine. Sarah, I want to speak to like the rock radio days, because I came up in the rock radio scene. So Bev, you know, you and I, we've done interviews before. You know we've known each other for a long time. We actually live in the same neighborhood too, which is fun to like, see you around. But so I did a thing

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in my music programming sort of days where I was doing feature programming for theme weekends, so whatever the theme was, and, you know, coming up on, like, let's say International Women's Day, there I was with my rock radio catalog, and I'm like, How the fuck are there only three women in this list of 200 songs, right? And so I started building the library, and, like, going deeper on the CDs and trying to make sure that we could have, like, you know, it can't just be Joan Jett and Biff naked in one of these playlists. Like, there's so many killer women out there. So I'm just wondering, especially coming off the heels of, like, another documentary right now that's made a lot of us think about the music scene, the Lilith fair documentary

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during that time, how did you sort of find your power? How did you find your confidence with all these terrible things that you were going through, like, you know, how do you put that into song, and how do you keep going? Oh, boy. Well, you know, I think that it's very cathartic to perform more than it is to be in a studio and sing it into a microphone. Performing, for me, was everything. And I don't think it's just because of having a dancer's background, I think because of the genre of music. For me, I could go on the stage and scream. And it wasn't just that. How I didn't like sever my carotid artery from head banging

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is remarkable, to be honest with you, because really, that's part of,

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really what the catharsis is for me, still to this day, is performing, and now it's really dangerous.

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I don't know why I get migraines. It is just

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like, you know, it's like, what am I in skeleton witch? What am I doing? You know, I'm still doing it and and I can't even help it, and it's just so it's such a release, and it's so much fun. And, you know, it's like without a care in the world, without any sense of self conscious. And it's not attractive. God forbid, God forbid, there's someone with their camera,

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and now your skin is just going down and up, and it's just like, What are you doing that's not attractive? You know, you beg them, Please, wait till I've stopped then take your little.

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Picture. Don't none of these like that, you know, but it's just, you just can't help it. I still stand behind saving the rage for the stage. And in rock,

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you get all that, all that angst and that trauma and that, you still get it out on the stage and the injustice in the world, not just in your personal life, all of that stuff, really and truly. That's why there's always going to be a mosh pit, really, yeah. And that's why it's still happening, you know? And that's why lyrics that are sociopolitical still make their way into the ear holes of, you know, people everywhere who inspired you back then and who's inspiring you now. On that note, oh gosh, the same, the same bands like, I mean, back then,

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you know, I still listen to the same stuff and the same, the same things are still happening when you think about it. Back then, we loved we loved the Bad Brains, and we loved Fugazi, and we loved Doa and and now I think that,

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you know, Doa is still on tour, it's important, and now you know, it's more important to listen to

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music that really makes you think. And there's a lot, you know, in Canada, also, there's a lot of Indigenous artists that are keeping us,

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you know, really, with our ear to the ground, you can hear snotty nose rice kids are right, I mean, and this is, you know, these are important artists, you know, that we need to listen to and share and spread the word about

36:53  
you've always been so supportive of everyone around you. And the thing that struck me is, you know, seeing the persona, seeing that rock, edgy, gritty, you know, like you said, head tossing woman on stage that's just yelling at her angst. There's such a kindness to your soul. You and I have been for meals many times over the years. You You did a fun little cameo on the Jann show. You know, several years ago, you were good enough to come out and play yourself and and my brother in law, the actor who played my my brother in law,

37:27  
was in love with you and saw you in a hotel, and it was the whole scene was funny, but you're, you are.

37:36  
This is a big word, but the antithesis of that rock hard throwing yourself into the audience. You are one of the kindest, most supportive people. You have sent me birthday cards for 20 years, popcorn makers and stickers and your drawings. And I remember tooling around Vancouver with Anastasia and Nicholas, your two beloved dogs. And they would go wherever we went. We would go dog walking. And the way you just talk to people, people coming up to you, you are a very gentle, soft spoken,

38:12  
beautifully grounded person. And so for me to see you on stage and to sit across a table from you at a vegan sushi place, eating fucking lettuce and yam rolls. Yeah, is such a Exactly? Is such

38:33  
it's such a juxtaposition, and yet they're they're intertwined, and I think it's such a beautiful part of your creativity.

38:44  
That's very nice of you to say, Miss Jann, it's the truth. You're just very nice. You've always lifted me up. You just, like, without fail, I'm like, she just sends me. I just broke the popcorn maker that you sent me 15 years ago, like three weeks ago, I finally blew the fucker up. Well, probably that many years ago for BPAs or something, God, go to the doctor. Go to the doctor. Well, I do have a penis growing off my left thigh, and I it might be from microwaving the plastic popcorn maker.

39:20  
Caitlin, yeah, go. It is probably from that going

39:24  
well. So, but to Jann's point. So then watching the documentary, because I felt the same way, like watching the documentary, that I was like, You're so kind and caring, and you kind of have this like childlike quality where you're just like, I don't know, there was just something about that, and it made me so mad when bad things happen to you. So when, oh my god, right, I was like, what the hell I just felt so pissed off on your behalf partway through the documentary, because you were, you know, there was a trajectory happening with your career. And then, you know, the music industry has always been, like, obviously, very difficult. But.

40:00  
You had some real setbacks, and I was like, I'm gonna start a letter writing campaign to this record executive to be like, Hey, you ripped us off. We were supposed to get this project and then so I'm just wondering, like, there's obviously disappointment in everyone's career, and I've been in media for a long time, and I've had disappointment in mind. But how do you handle that? And like, what would any advice be that you would have for people who are going through career disappointments and setbacks, because you sure as hell kept going

40:27  
well. And now it's even different, because now, when you have streaming services and young artists feel almost a real futility. I think you know, I can imagine that, but you have to look at the other side of that coin, because now, truly, it's easier than ever to get music out there when you when you think about it, and a lot of us really bemoan streaming services.

41:01  
It is hard because you can't, you really can't make a living. But honestly, you couldn't before, and now there's just really, you know, unless you're, you know, these, these American, I always go, these American, you know, blonde girls, you know, unless you're that you really can't really make a crazy good living, you know, how do, how do you do it in the world, I used to say, and I stand by it now, there's room for everybody. You know, there really is. There's a million artists truly making music, and there's room for everybody. I've never heard a piece of music in my life that I didn't like. I've never heard a piece of music any genre that I did not like, whatever it is. And I just still believe there's room for everybody in music and in all art,

42:04  
because art is subjective, and everybody's fans, to that fan, their artist, whatever genre it is, means the world to them, then why shouldn't they?

42:17  
So you know, to anyone that's still out there, plugging away. Just keep going. You know, why would you ever stop? Ever

42:28  
if you enjoy making music, if you enjoy playing the pan flute, if you you know whatever it is, if you enjoy doing your watercolors, whatever it is, why would you ever

42:39  
Why stop? If it makes you happy, you know? Why would you ever stop doing that? I know. But people get discouraged and they get pulverized out there Biff, and they get, you know, you had a record ready to go. It went down to the states. Peter was shopping it, and the woman who was running the label, I'm not gonna even say what label it was, because it doesn't matter. Just said, we're not going to have a punk artist that looks like her with the tattoo, with the hair. She's not going to be on the same label as Celine Dion, yeah, it's not going to happen. And, and and a woman, which is always the irony to me, because women in power are in a position to be those change makers to lift people who are unique. And once again, and Caitlin, you, you can back me up on this over and over and over in this documentary, we both looked at each other and thought she should have been fucking so much bigger, yes, than this globally. I mean, you were so big in Canada and certainly parts of Europe, but, but you should have been Gwen Stefani, you never seem bitter about it. You're just like, honey. That's the way it goes. And you just keep making art. Well, you've never, but you've never seen bitter to me, ever. You know, I saw a news story a long time ago from Jennifer Aniston, and it was back in the 90s where her her parents were having to deal with they somebody was going through their garbage all the time.

44:09  
And I remember watching this TV story. We were in a hotel room, I think I was with Doug fury, and we were watching it on the news, and Jennifer Anderson's parents, and she was going my poor parents. And I thought, Oh my God. And I looked at Doug, and I went, she can't even go to the grocery store by herself.

44:28  
Can you imagine that life where she can't even walk her own dogs around?

44:35  
That's terrible. I thought, what a terrible life that would be. She can't do anything for his she can't drive her own car. I can't imagine I would not want you can't even drive around without your windows tinted. How can you see out the windshield? I remember working with Linda Perry in Los Angeles, and she had this Mercedes, and all the windows were tinted. And I thought, how can it be? And I.

45:00  
I told her that in Canada, that was against the law. Yeah, I said that's against the law. You over you cannot tint. Well, they don't in Ontario, I tell you that right now, it's lawless here. Don't come here. It's lawless. But I just, I can't believe it, and I just thought, wow,

45:18  
how would you like to have a life where you can't do nothing, it's like you're a prisoner. And I remember, it was around the same time poor Britney Spears had her little kids. They were tiny, little babies, and people were chasing her down the street. People were chasing all these all these girls around, because it was still paparazzi days, and what a life that would be. So, you know, I always think that there's this, you know, I will always find a silver lining in everything, and I still do to this day, you know. And I just think, yeah, I don't know there's a, there's always a silver lining to everything. I don't know there's a silver lining. Yeah, you don't want people going through your garbage so you don't you're not like. What if I never what if I think maybe Peter Carol, you're like you said, your longtime manager might think about that more than you do, because he has been single handedly, doggedly determined to take your unique, very specific, wonderful talent, and put it on a pedestal for the whole world to see, and he would not let you quit. It was very emotional watching him talk about you. He is amazing. He is the Incredible Hulk.

46:35  
He He is amazing. He is definitely a musician. Yes, he is. And he co and he co writes with me, and he produces the records. And, yeah, Peter's amazing. There's, I mean, your relationship is very unique and different, and, and I'm just going to play the devil's advocate, you guys have also faced a lot of scrutiny over the years that you have been, you know, kind of, you know the low leaded, if I may say so. And kind of sure, you know, you were a young girl. And I've known Peter for a long time as well, and I have never met anyone that believes in someone more than he believes in you. And it is you guys are a team. Yes, absolutely, 100%

47:18  
and I mean, you know, he comes by it honestly. Peter has, I mean, he has five daughters, and he gave me away at my last wedding. You know, because my father, your lat, your final wedding, no more weddings,

47:34  
my father, my father had already passed away. My father was not available to give me away at my last wedding, Peter gave me away. And, you know, so

47:46  
you know, we've been through everything in life and and it will always be this way. I don't know. I think that as much as he believes in me, I believe in Him, and that's why we keep going the way we do, and the sky's the limit. And I still, like I said, I think that I am mid career,

48:06  
yeah, oh my god, I'm curious to know what you'd want to do next, because in the in the documentary, you know, we it touches on your acting. And again, you're very you're incredibly compelling, obviously, on stage. And something I think that was really uh poignant of Peter to discuss was how he found you very captivating to watch, like, right away he sees you on stage, you're the front of this band, and he just thinks, I that's the star. And then they put your posters up all over town, and they have a poster without you, and then they have a poster with you, and then the poster with you is, like, the big deal. And then he takes the rest of the band off, and it's just you and you're selling out shows. And I think he really knew talent, like he saw you and was like, you're very compelling to watch, and you are. You're incredibly compelling to watch in this documentary. And I feel like, would you know? Would you and beautiful, beautiful, beauty. Bless your heart. But would you want to do more acting? Would you want to do other artistic endeavors beyond music? Like, what do you feel like could be next for this second half? Oh my gosh. Well, I mean, obviously we're always working on new music. I have it. We just put a new record last year, and there that how the documentary came about was because they're working on a feature film based on the ibifigucus book. Oh, God. So that that's crazy to me. Yeah, I obviously, I'm not, I am obviously not playing fifth naked in this. I'm not the young fifth naked in this. I just got the part. I just got the part. That's Jann. Jann's gonna do it, yeah? I mean, I love writing, so that's happening all the time, and I would love to see another book from you. Yeah, I think there's, like you said, there's so many stories that you didn't tell, but people not only are interested in your music and your persona, but they're really they're really so interested in your personal journey, how you did overcome cancer. We spoke about that earlier in the podcast, that.

50:00  
You know, like millions of other women, you discovered a lump, and you went through all of that. And then there was implications, of course, with chemo and kidneys and heart stuff. And then wound around all that was very tumultuous relationships, you know, like every other woman out there, you know, who dreams of, you know, meeting the right person and entering into states of matrimony, and, you know, trying to make it work. And because of the level of your fame, and probably money and all kinds of different things that enter into it, you know, you, you were with partners that thought, hey, hey, this isn't working out, but I'm gonna go after her for everything she has. And, and you're on the third go round of that, and Peter has been through it all with you. But,

50:39  
yeah, it's, there's so many books. I think for you, I think you're a really, really gifted writer. I read ibithas, and I was not surprised when I opened it up and realized that you could tell a story like nobody's business, and that you're eloquent. A good book bag pick. Yeah, it really would be a great book bag pick, and we will do that. You're going to be in our book club. I'm saying it right now. If it's not my pick, it's going to be somebody else's. But is there an audio book? I feel naive. I read the book book. We just finished recording the audio. Yeah, and your voice is so calming. I really, oh, cool. Thank you. That was just, well, listen, we've had you on here for the entire length of the podcast, but Biff naked has been our guest today. She has a brand new documentary that's out. We are going to have a lot of information in the show notes of where you can see this, Toronto, Vancouver, but it's also going to be on in regular rotation on Super channel. This is a hard fought, beautiful, interesting, fucking teary eyed, like, like Caitlin said she just wanted to write a letter campaign and probably send anthrax to a lot of

51:54  
these fucking people. Letters on that open, open this envelope, and breathe deeply, you piece of shit. That's, really,

52:02  
that's really what we want to do to people. But of course, we do not advocate that kind of behavior on the channel. So one question from social media, I'm going to throw in nightmare dot creations with a kind of scary clown image in the profile photos. Says, I want to ask Biff how she stays inspired to keep trying new things in her life. Oh, I love that. That's Donna. Donna, you we both know Donna. Yeah, that's Donna. I stay inspired to try new things, because I love trying new things. And it's easy to stay inspired because I wake up every day. I mean, how can we not stay inspired? We have to keep keep going. And Donna knows this because she's also a survivor.

52:47  
Yeah, it's easy to stay inspired. How can we not even, you know, even on the bad days,

52:54  
we have to. It's our responsibility as human beings to be inspired by anything and to not be afraid to fail, and to not be afraid to not get it right, we talk about that a lot. It's just the point of doing things is not to be at expert level. I mean, how boring would that be? Half the time? Yeah, made in Canada. 76 says saw your documentary. Also saw the Lilith fair doc, and you were shown backstage in some clips. How do you feel about being included, and did it bring up any memories of that 90s scene that maybe were also shared in your documentary? Oh my gosh,

53:32  
yeah. It was being on the Louis fair. Was Was otherworldly. Was at the time, it was one of the first times I'd ever played in places like Dallas, for example. And

53:47  
I remember Coco Culbertson was in my band at the time, and she was such a big fan of Emmy Lou Harris, and she was so excited to see Emmy Lou Harris backstage, you know, things like that, I remember, and it was just for us. It was just such a big thrill to to be among all of those other people we never would have ever thought in our wildest dreams that we would be included in that. Okay? And last one from Ben J Zarko, question from the screening I didn't get a chance to ask, as a woman who broke ground in the very male centric 90s punk scene, was there a specific moment you consciously had to fight for your space or define your voice? What did you learn from it, and what did you carry with you? Oh my gosh, yeah. There were like 100,000 specific moments. One really tough one. Really tough one. Give us a really tough one. Oh gosh, well, playing at the Commodore ballroom, on a on a bill with a band that was who I won't name,

54:55  
that thought I was there to service them sexually, that we were open.

55:00  
Running for

55:02  
and I kind of joked it off because I had no choice. We still had to open for them that night. But I was quite devastated. I felt a bit crest fallen, to say the least, that they had such little respect for me as a female, it mattered very little to them that who was opening for them at all. So I felt badly for my bandmates, because they were also big fans of the band, and they they were dismissed because they had a female singer. And so I felt worse for them, because they were bigger fans. I expected to be treated that way, because I was accustomed to it, and I never took it personally, because I knew it just had everything to do with, you know, with my gender, so I didn't really care. But, you know, I always,

56:01  
I always kind of just was motivated, therefore, to perform with more head banging, more risk to my carotid artery. And it only motivated me, stuff like that only motivated me further to play twice as hard and to present myself twice as tough and which I felt was, which I felt was good for me, you know? And so that's all. So thank those assholes, yeah, but you are a delight, and I look forward to having some, you know, vegan potato rolls somewhere. And yes, and you know that you are so beloved in this country, and it was a triumph watching you tell your story. And there's so much more to come. And so you, I hope you. And Peter, just keep knocking it out of the park, and thank you. And just Yeah, keep inspiring people. Biff, it's been a pleasure having you on the podcast. And thank you so much. I'm such a huge fan of the show. I love I love your podcast, guys. Caitlin's gonna ask you one more question that we do like to ask our guests, so I'm gonna hand it over to her, and it's kind of a special part of the show. We love to discuss things that are making us feel good lately and things that we do for ourselves to take care of our mental health. So what's something that's making you feel good lately? What's something you do to make yourself feel good? I have a ritual with my Yorkie every morning. I'm just gonna just grab her, because she's King. Grace, freely.

57:34  
Can we just talk to the girls so Grace and I have a ritual. She's constipated. Grace, what do we say every day? Every day we say, God is a baby because you were made in God's image, and you're a baby.

57:50  
And so we say, we say thank

57:53  
you. We say thank you for this day and for making me a baby. Thank you for this day. It's the little things, isn't it? Biff, it's the little, it's those little shards of gratitude. Our guest today has been Biff naked, and of course, if you're watching on to YouTube, that's grace, freely after ace, freely from the very, very famous, iconic rock band. Kiss. And you are an absolute delight. And I look forward to seeing you soon. Congratulations on every single triumph that you've had. Go see the documentary. Biff, naked show notes. Check it out. I bificus, the book is exceptional, and we will see you next time. Thanks for joining us today, Biff, thank you for having me. We'll see you on the other side. We're gonna go do Patreon now and just talk about all kinds of stuff, like maybe how to get pregnant on Tylenol and things like that. Till next time we'll see it totally do you?

Transcribed by https://otter.ai