Behind the Song: Where No One Knows Me

0:08  
Hey, it's Jannn Arden once again. Here we are to do a deep dive in a segment that we like to call Behind the Song. I'm here with Sarah Burke, and this week we had a very special request from a listener. Hi

0:19  
there, this is Matthew from Hamilton. I just finished listening to your new midweek podcast behind the song, and I love the idea of hearing the stories behind some of Jann's songs. In honor of Pride Month, I like to request to hear the story behind the song Where No One Knows Me, which I refer to as my hometown song, I'm a member of the LGBTQ plus community, and grew up in small town southwestern Ontario. At a time when people like me were not welcomed or supported there, it was a very difficult time in my life. Throughout high school, I couldn't wait to finish grade 12 and move to where no one knew me, so I could have a fresh start. Jann, this song always makes me think of this time in my life, and now every time I go back to visit, this song is the first one I always listen to when I head home to Hamilton. So, I would love to know more about the song and the story behind it. Thanks, Jann.

1:26  
I mean, that really hits me like right in the chest, Sarah, because you know, after all these years, you always wonder what the listeners think when they hear this music.

1:36  
If I have this right, it's on the self-titled record, and I think it came out in 2005 Does that check?

1:42  
Yeah. So let's take that back. Let's walk it back a bit. 21 years, and which is a lifetime for most of us.

1:51  
So, like, you know, not knowing where you were when you wrote the song, you would think from the lyrics that you're exploring, like escaping something, maybe expectations disappearing. Oh God, yeah, something reinventing yourself. Also, maybe like exhausted from carrying around an identity that maybe isn't serving you. Does that make sense?

2:13  
Yeah, it absolutely does. I think Russell Broom, who I have collaborated with for, I think, I think we were talking the other day, it's 34 years, and Russell had that great. It's just that worm that gets into your head, and I just remember sitting crouched on the floor in his studio. He's moved that studio a couple of times now, and we would just sort of like play in real time, and I would scribble stuff down in the notepad, but it very much is about trying to outrun wherever it is that you're standing, and sometimes it can just be a momentary thing. It's not like you want to disappear forever, but in that moment, and for me, that's what it was. It was like a discomfort. It's like, oh God, if I could just get away from this feeling. And I love the idea of, and correct me if I'm wrong here, but I think, as a woman, we were all really affected by Thelma and Louise. I think it was a really iconic film. We didn't see a lot of buddy films with women, and I know that that kind of played in my mind, of you know, they've been out running the law, and they're gonna literally drive their freaking car into a canyon, and we're all sitting in the theater going, what just happened?

3:36  
That movie came out in 91 so like, what happened between 91 and 2005 that that was stuck in your brain.

3:43  
Well, I think I'd done a lot of three year relationships, and when I mean a lot, I mean like, like three three to five year relationships, I was like a serial relationship person. I didn't stay alone very long, but I found myself I should have probably just dated or just had casual relationships with people, but I just sort of jumped in and was always in these relationships, and I think I had come to a point where I just got my hand on the wheel, got my foot on the pedal, you know, and it's like I just want to go forward in my life, and the song, it just scratched an itch in me, as far as how the production propelled it, and then the lyric, just about, you know, having the wind in your face, and in your, and you could just feel like bugs literally hitting your teeth, and you know, there's a line in there about ripping the rear view mirror off, you know, because you don't want to look behind you anymore, and I sort of went further in a poetic way to say I ripped the rear view mirror off while I'm fucking driving this car and wrapped it in a wedding gown, and I think that was sort of a metaphor for you. Know, being in a relationship, and at the very last minute ditching it, like just running, run away, run it right. Yes, and I wasn't getting married or anything like that, but I obviously was trying to ditch responsibility, and, and that was just something that I still think about every time I sing it. It makes me smile, tore the rear view mirror down, wrapped it in my wedding gown, and then launching into this chorus again, and I think a lot of us men, man, woman, he, she, they, them, we have all felt like when we get right down to it, is this the person for me, is can I commit to this, can I go forward, and I know, Sarah, that you've been in similar positions in your own life.

5:44  
Well, like, even how the song starts. Got my suitcase, got my dog, I'm packing up my life so far. So it's like you're admitting that there is still something to find, but you're like pretty happy where you are on your own, almost.

5:55  
Yeah, yeah,

5:56  
got my pictures, got some cash. I'm getting out of here at last.

6:00  
Yeah, and I think what we find as we get older, it doesn't matter how fast you run, you're going to be standing there in your own dust storm when you stop, because you have to deal with things on a very visceral, immediate, you can't outrun things, let's just simplify that, you can't outrun things, and I think I knew that, but I did like the idea of recreating self, going somewhere, and Matthew, you hit the nail on the head, like literally, of going somewhere, especially if you are a queer person in a small town where everybody knows you. I went to school with 42 kids in my grade, 42 that's small, you know. Kids that other kids that I knew that went into a city school, they had 1000 people that graduated with them. In fact, when they heard a kid's name called out to get their diploma, it was the first freaking time they'd ever seen them in their lives. They just didn't ever have any interaction. So, yeah, I totally get that, Matthew of I just don't want to be where people know me. I want to go start a life where I have anonymity, where I can be this person, because if you grow up and you know all of a sudden, oh yeah, matched whisper, whisper, whisper, you know, I think he's gay, and whisper, whisper, whisper, whereas you go somewhere else, your identity, you, you bring yourself with you to the table, this complete version of yourself. It's a great fun song to sing, because the propellant in the song, the groove of the song, the drumbeat, Russell's guitar riff that he's constantly doing and repeating, it feels like you're running, you feel breathless when you perform it. I do it, just..

7:44  
it

7:45  
just doesn't stop.

7:55  
Where were you with, you know, your queer identity at that time? Because it is pride, like, had you talked about it in interviews or sang about it in a song at this point in 2005

8:06  
you think I was always really fairly ambiguous,

8:09  
yeah, and it

8:10  
wasn't because of any sort, I have always really been so at ease with who I am, it never dawned on me, and I've talked about this on the pod before, on our regular pod, is that I think I was 19, 1919, going on 20, like late in the game. I'd always had boyfriends, not a lot of them. I wasn't boy, I wasn't anything crazy. I was into sports, I was into hanging out with my friends, but I remember kissing a girl named Leslie, Leslie Anderson, shout out to you. In college I was taking theater, as you do, and learning how to smoke cigarettes, and you know, drinking, and.. and I remember kissing her at her mom's place. Her mom had, like, a box of wine in the fridge, and we each had a glass of wine. And back in those days, if I had a glass of wine, I was like, my head was just like spinning. But I remember thinking to myself, and I'll never forget it, is like, oh my god, I didn't know this was an option, so I can really, really empathize and sympathize with people that have an identity that they need to shell, that they need to put away, that they don't want to tell their parents or their friends, and I'm sure Matthew's got some freaking stories about being in a small town and navigating that, but yeah, I literally just said to myself, "Oh my god, this is an option for me, I can actually kiss a girl, and I never looked back, and I had the kind of parents your mom would say, "You know, you're a private person, and you know, I think she would have people saying, "So does Jann have a boyfriend, and mom would say she's a private person. I don't know. I remember breaking up with a girlfriend, and I was crying on the phone to my mom. I think I was in my 20s, and, and I just was talking about her to my mom, and I said, well, you know, blah blah blah, and, and you know, we kind of broke up, and my mom was, you know, she felt bad and. And I think it's the first time I kind of like said, like, I have girlfriends too, I'd never out now said it to her, and my dad's on the other phone, you know, when you have the fucking phones in the house, we'd love you if you were a pig with purple spots, and that was that going forward,

10:17  
so when the song was coming together, I know you said you were, you know, scribbling on a notepad, and you're in the studio with Russ Broome, but was it like a lyric that came first? Was it that little guitar lick? What was his? Started it, it was.. it was

10:28  
his riff. Yeah, Russell comes to me with pretty complete ideas with structure, like he'll.. he'll have a map. I mean, once in a while, we'll lengthen something, or can you add four bars onto this part of the song, whether it's a verse segment, do you think we can add a bridge to it? Like, but for the most part, you know, he had showed up with this, and how can I help but follow that? You know, I followed him into the fire with that idea, and but the got my suitcase, it just that just sort of opened up. I don't think we could hit people over the head with it, you know, with verses as well. I think the verses to me felt like they needed to be open, long winding road, the vista ahead of you, the nothingness. And then when you hit the fucking gas, yeah, that's when you explode into a chorus, and I think that really is a sign of a great chorus, is that you definitely have this split off from a verse structure, and you, it's an exciting place to go, you know, with the listener, you know, we never, it just, the song never lets you down,

11:37  
and it is a little bit vague, some of this, which is why people question, like, you know, is it about escaping someone, is it an identity, right? Like, people have all those questions about it, but wouldn't you say that, especially with what Matthew was getting at in his voice note, that this song is almost more important now, 20 plus years later, than it was at the time that you released it,

12:00  
definitely, and I think songs have a way of finding their own life, and it's not up to me to tell anyone, you know, what something means. It's just not up to me. Whatever it is to you, that's that's important. And a lot of artists will talk about that, and these things change for me as well. You know, over the years, you know, could I be your girl? Means something different. Good mother means something different to me. That did you become more sentimental about it?

12:26  
It's rare to put a self-titled record out, and that was record number six for you. So,

12:32  
am I.. what's wrong with me?

12:34  
Well, no, it's not that something's wrong with you, but it's almost like a statement, like, here I am, I'm now comfortable in my own skin after that many records, that it's you, you on the cover, and your name on the record. What do you think about that in reflection?

12:46  
Well, I remember saying in a marketing meeting, I said I'd never had a self-titled record, and what was kind of odd for me was that my first record should have been just Jann Arden, and I called it Time for Mercy. I really fought hard to have the first album titled because I just thought it was an important statement to what I was feeling like, like it's time to, to just be honest and show people who I am, and kind of like have mercy on me, like you might not like this record, but have there was lots of different things going on in my mind, but yeah, the self-titled thing, it probably ended up being more confusing than not, but yeah.

13:33  
And any final thoughts for someone struggling with identity who's, you know, trying to lean into Pride Month, but you know, doesn't really know where to start.

13:47  
It's such a huge question, and it's such a different journey for every single individual. I think time is very wise, and in a moment when you're just scared, and you feel unsure of yourself, you have to know that you are a very normal person, your sexuality, your gender identity, your how you perceive yourself, they're such normal, it's just a normal thing, as you get older, you'll kind of climb into this version of yourself where you kind of say, this is the way I'm, I am, this is who I'm going to be, I'm good friends help so much, and for those of you that feel like you don't have a friend to lean into, keep looking, don't give up on that, keep trying to forge friendships and find like-minded people, and don't be afraid of yourself, and don't be afraid of your feelings, and for God's sakes, don't bury things, you know? If anything, get gayer, get more out, get more, and I mean that, get braver, you know, they can't, they can't stifle your spirit and. And you are exact, I mean, Lady Gaga, I was born this way, you were born this way, it's not like you've chosen something that I don't think anyone would choose that, although I feel like I kind of did sometimes, is that I was able to choose, but don't, don't lose hope, keep going forward one step at a time, and if you need to walk away from people, if you need to walk away from your family and figure out that you got to crash on somebody's couch for a month, it seems like a goddamn disaster. But don't be around people that do not support you and do not cheer you on. But things are getting better, and there's lots of help out there, for especially a young queer community. There's help lines, there's so many. We can put a

15:43  
few of those in the show. Yeah,

15:44  
we can link things that can help you. There's there's phone lines that there's there's people that you can talk to. There is a community out here. You don't have to do it by yourself, but everybody's story is different. Be respectful of other people's stories. Don't fucking out people, let people come to the mountain on their own, and I will leave you with this: don't steal from people either. And whenever you go, it would be like the person asking mom, so does Jann have a boyfriend, and it's.. it's kind of.. it's.. it's stealing in a way, because it puts a person in an impossible position. I don't say to people, do you have a boyfriend, or do you have a girlfriend, or have you met anybody? I don't. That's just not my line of questioning, because it brings discomfort. I think if someone brings it up, my God, I met someone, blah blah blah blah blah, that's your door. It opens up, you can say, God, is there anything you want to talk about? What's in, what's going on in your life? That's the way you should approach it,

16:42  
and if the journey starts with a place that you got to go where no one knows your name, then so be it.

16:48  
Exactly, nothing wrong with that. And every day is an opportunity to recreate who you are. You never have to stay in a life, even if you've built a life for 40 years. You don't have to stay there. You have every right to start again. No matter what anybody says, you are allowed to start your life again and do what you need to do, and don't ever forget that. And that, ladies and gentlemen, is the message behind the song with Where No One Knows Me. I hope you've liked it. I hope it sheds some light. And thank you so much, Matthew, for shining a light on a song that I haven't really talked about in this way, so thank you so much. I'm Jann Arden, and this has been Behind the Song.